Received: from mail-ey0-f189.google.com ([209.85.215.189]:59968) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1S8l5l-0004Rn-MI; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 21:18:18 -0700 Received: by eaan10 with SMTP id n10sf3713873eaa.16 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 21:18:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=L3WY++jzNQugXqQQSVMTCv5jj16bxllkcIB86iKG6ys=; b=2k3ObpwAUTIeMuU1DnQn+IDQqeMUvgGVV/pUUOu/Oa0oOlzShsUtwSPGDM8y23iDYT nwiDDiKq3cdeAMbM7IyGyqB95VzOMNixsnzq0qaXTEcQ+VJyVHQgCedqyGE0fmrZseyc bzIfEPMP7fgQSPx9A8I8erSHzo35wLRCjSU5s= Received: by 10.204.131.67 with SMTP id w3mr395594bks.33.1331957856595; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 21:17:36 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.50.142 with SMTP id z14ls6311690bkf.3.gmail; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 21:17:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.150.90 with SMTP id x26mr474792bkv.6.1331957854902; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 21:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.150.90 with SMTP id x26mr474791bkv.6.1331957854874; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 21:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-f172.google.com (mail-lb0-f172.google.com [209.85.217.172]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ba12si8741285bkb.2.2012.03.16.21.17.34 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 16 Mar 2012 21:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.172 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.217.172; Received: by lbol12 with SMTP id l12so2814791lbo.31 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 21:17:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.46.202 with SMTP id x10mr1796720lbm.39.1331957854455; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 21:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.148.225 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 21:17:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120317041203.GU14076@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> References: <2343119.814.1331896532433.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynkz21> <32227855.55.1331909777553.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yncc18> <14627135.208.1331917668355.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbas10> <2079674.1138.1331942278726.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynee13> <20120317000028.GS14076@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <20120317041203.GU14076@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 22:17:34 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Major flaw in Lojban ! (was:Pivotal sentences in Pandunia. How to express them in Lojban ?) From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.172 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec55406acc5498204bb689a9f X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.3 X-Spam_score_int: 3 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. 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Content preview: On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Robin Lee Powell < rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 07:05:32PM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Robin Lee Powell < > > rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 04:57:58PM -0700, Lindar wrote: > > > > UI is not a replacement for whole phrases. 《.au mi > > > > sipna》means 《mi sipna》 and you feel desire about it. 《.e'o > > > > rinsa》 means 《rinsa》 and you're suggesting something by it. > > > > > > That is not currently the case in the language, as you are well > > > aware, given your note at the end of > > > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK%20Section:%20Irrealis%20Attitudinals > > > > > > {.au mi sipna} most definitely does *not* currently assert {mi > > > sipna}. > > > > > > -Robin > > > > > > > My understanding of that note means that it could mean any > > combination of "I desire that I sleep." and "I'm sleeping, about > > which I feel desire." > > > > Personally, I don't see much use for the second interpretation, > > but based on the note, it's a valid one. > > Sure, if you read *the note*. The note is Lindar's opinion, it is > not the current state of the language. The current state is > represented by the rest of the page. > > -Robin > [...] Content analysis details: (0.3 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (eyeonus[at]gmail.com) 0.0 DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED No valid author signature, adsp_override is CUSTOM_MED -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature 0.3 PLING_QUERY Subject has exclamation mark and question mark 0.0 T_TO_NO_BRKTS_FREEMAIL To: misformatted and free email service --bcaec55406acc5498204bb689a9f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Robin Lee Powell < rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 07:05:32PM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Robin Lee Powell < > > rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 04:57:58PM -0700, Lindar wrote: > > > > UI is not a replacement for whole phrases. =E3=80=8A.au mi > > > > sipna=E3=80=8Bmeans =E3=80=8Ami sipna=E3=80=8B and you feel desire = about it. =E3=80=8A.e'o > > > > rinsa=E3=80=8B means =E3=80=8Arinsa=E3=80=8B and you're suggesting = something by it. > > > > > > That is not currently the case in the language, as you are well > > > aware, given your note at the end of > > > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK%20Section:%20Irrealis%20Attitudinals > > > > > > {.au mi sipna} most definitely does *not* currently assert {mi > > > sipna}. > > > > > > -Robin > > > > > > > My understanding of that note means that it could mean any > > combination of "I desire that I sleep." and "I'm sleeping, about > > which I feel desire." > > > > Personally, I don't see much use for the second interpretation, > > but based on the note, it's a valid one. > > Sure, if you read *the note*. The note is Lindar's opinion, it is > not the current state of the language. The current state is > represented by the rest of the page. > > -Robin > Well, as long as the current state is that the latter is wrong, I'm happy, then. --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. --bcaec55406acc5498204bb689a9f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Robin Lee Powe= ll <rlp= owell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 07:05:32PM -0600, Jonathan Jones = wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Robin Lee Powell <
> rlpowell@digitalkingdom= .org> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 04:57:58PM -0700, Lindar wrote:
> > > UI is not a replacement for whole phrases. =E3=80=8A.au mi > > > sipna=E3=80=8Bmeans =E3=80=8Ami sipna=E3=80=8B and you feel = desire about it. =E3=80=8A.e'o
> > > rinsa=E3=80=8B means =E3=80=8Arinsa=E3=80=8B and you're = suggesting something by it.
> >
> > That is not currently the case in the language, as you are well > > aware, given your note at the end of
> > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK%20Section= :%20Irrealis%20Attitudinals
> >
> > {.au mi sipna} most definitely does *not* currently assert {mi > > sipna}.
> >
> > -Robin
> >
>
> My understanding of that note means that it could mean any
> combination of "I desire that I sleep." and "I'm sl= eeping, about
> which I feel desire."
>
> Personally, I don't see much use for the second interpretation, > but based on the note, it's a valid one.

Sure, if you read *the note*. =C2=A0The note is Lindar's opinion,= it is
not the current state of the language. =C2=A0The current state is
represented by the rest of the page.

-Robin

Well, as long as the current state = is that the latter is wrong, I'm happy, then.

-- <= br>mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be den= pa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
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