Received: from mail-wi0-f189.google.com ([209.85.212.189]:39456) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1S9zca-0008Jq-M3; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 07:01:19 -0700 Received: by wibhq12 with SMTP id hq12sf45108wib.16 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 07:01:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=ykorGvZbqKrsDBk935g5KimvF3zYZpgeCNfyxWVn+pY=; b=G3cNh1KPJN4PiLG81+ccMbcldw0N5NRWnzAA0GqHAljDKXlxX3rYQOEwoOF0+22thx JJOQBHvEX5jh97Czjpy4RnyoSC+GSvcuM2TuvPRXW99ZTFFPQlc2aE0Mpftk1drtLtBE gWhZhrDvBg3x9PhzUp3CgTq/n8Ly7SVpxSsFQ= Received: by 10.204.157.5 with SMTP id z5mr1218184bkw.15.1332252025428; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 07:00:25 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.181.202 with SMTP id bz10ls424755bkb.0.gmail; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 07:00:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.129.15 with SMTP id m15mr7577bks.2.1332252024208; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 07:00:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.129.15 with SMTP id m15mr7576bks.2.1332252024176; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 07:00:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-f179.google.com (mail-lb0-f179.google.com [209.85.217.179]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ba12si1995689bkb.2.2012.03.20.07.00.23 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 20 Mar 2012 07:00:24 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.179 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.217.179; Received: by lbbgn12 with SMTP id gn12so51276lbb.38 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 07:00:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.104.43 with SMTP id gb11mr18278lab.8.1332252023548; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 07:00:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.148.225 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 07:00:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <24143939.1398.1332138901295.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynnk21> <19229634.6385.1332243517469.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynne2> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 08:00:23 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Is it possible to completely get rid of {ku} in speech ? From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.179 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d040713dd9d6c7a04bbad1812 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --f46d040713dd9d6c7a04bbad1812 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I didn't actually do the experimenting to determine such a thing myself, so I really can't say exactly. However, your example is extremely contrived. I highly doubt that anyone would talk about an event of an event of an event of an event in any real-life situation, nor can I conceive of what such a thing is. I'm not even sure of what an event of an event is, let alone the fourth iteration. (lodu'u broda losi'o brode lonu brodi , on the other hand, at least makes some sort of coherent sense to me, however.) Also, vlasisku.lojban.org appears to be down. Someone not about to go to sleep want to go on IRC and let Robin et al know? (It happens that while I know there are other NU, si'o du'u and nu are the only ones I remember off the top of my head.) On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 7:15 AM, MorphemeAddict wrote: > > > On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 9:10 AM, ianek wrote: > >> >> >> On 20 Mar, 13:23, Jonathan Jones wrote: >> > Well, in that case, I recommend cu, not ku. cu is actually easily >> elidable, >> > unlike ku. I believe we determined not long ago that in the worst case, >> it >> > would take a maximum of three terminators in the absence of cu to >> correctly >> > terminate a grammatical structure, and rarely more than one. >> >> What a about {lo nu broda lo nu brode lo nu brodi lo nu brodo ku ku ku >> ku brodu}? Jbofi'e says that it needs at least these four {ku} if we >> want to avoid {cu}. >> I like avoiding {cu}, but only when it doesn't require a string of >> more than two terminators. >> > > Maybe the original meant three *distinct* terminators. You've used only > one, albeit four times. > > stevo > >> >> mu 'o mi'e ianek >> >> > cu is kind of like an optional half-.i, in that whereas .i implicitly >> adds >> > whatever terminators are required to end the previous sentence and >> begin a >> > new one, cu does the same, but only up the point of the selbri (, and >> > please keep in mind that that is where my comparison ends- I doubt there >> > are any other similarities between cu and .i). >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 5:38 AM, gleki >> wrote: >> > > Well. We are preparing a textbook that will teach how to speak lojban. >> > > But this textbook must use as few words as possible. >> > > I wanna get rid of all words that can be replaced by other words. >> > >> > > It's a textbook for newbies. So don't worry. It will be an >> introduction to >> > > Lojban. >> > >> > > On Monday, March 19, 2012 10:49:14 AM UTC+4, stevo wrote: >> > >> > >> Even if it is possible to eliminate {ku} in speech, why would you >> want to? >> > >> > >> stevo >> > >> > >> On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 2:35 AM, gleki > >wrote: >> > >> > >>> Is it possible to completely get rid of {ku} in speech ? Can we >> > >>> rearrange words in extreme cases and use other cmavo like {kei} and >> {cu} ? >> > >> > >>> -- >> > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >> > >>> To view this discussion on the web visithttps:// >> groups.google.com/d/** >> > >>> msg/lojban-beginners/-/**P3eUQjPdbJsJ< >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/P3eUQjPdbJsJ> >> > >>> . >> > >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups. >> **com >> > >>> . >> > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com> ibe@googlegroups.com> >> > >>> . >> > >>> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/** >> > >>> group/lojban-beginners?hl=en< >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en> >> > >>> . >> > >> > >> -- >> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> > > "Lojban Beginners" group. >> > > To view this discussion on the web visit >> > >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/GaqDxupbMXQJ. >> > >> > > To post to this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> > > For more options, visit this group at >> > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > >> > -- >> > mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> > >> > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --f46d040713dd9d6c7a04bbad1812 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I didn't actually do the experimenting to determine such a thing myself= , so I really can't say exactly.

However, your example is extrem= ely contrived. I highly doubt that anyone would talk about an event of an e= vent of an event of an event in any real-life situation, nor can I conceive= of what such a thing is. I'm not even sure of what an event of an even= t is, let alone the fourth iteration. (lodu'u broda losi'o brode lo= nu brodi , on the other hand, at least makes some sort of coherent sense to= me, however.)

Also, vlasisku.lojban.org ap= pears to be down. Someone not about to go to sleep want to go on IRC and le= t Robin et al know? (It happens that while I know there are other NU, si= 9;o du'u and nu are the only ones I remember off the top of my head.)
On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 7:15 AM, MorphemeAdd= ict <lytlesw@gmai= l.com> wrote:


On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 a= t 9:10 AM, ianek <janek37@gmail.com> wrote:


On 20 Mar, 13:23, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, in that case, I recommend cu, not ku. cu is actually easily elid= able,
> unlike ku. I believe we determined not long ago that in the worst case= , it
> would take a maximum of three terminators in the absence of cu to corr= ectly
> terminate a grammatical structure, and rarely more than one.

What a about {lo nu broda lo nu brode lo nu brodi lo nu brodo ku ku k= u
ku brodu}? Jbofi'e says that it needs at least these four {ku} if we want to avoid {cu}.
I like avoiding {cu}, but only when it doesn't require a string of
more than two terminators.

Maybe = the original meant three distinct terminators. You've used only = one, albeit four times.=A0

stevo=A0

mu 'o mi'e ianek

> cu is kind of like an optional half-.i, in that whereas .i implicitly = adds
> whatever terminators are required to end the previous sentence and beg= in a
> new one, cu does the same, but only up the point of the selbri (, and<= br> > please keep in mind that that is where my comparison ends- I doubt the= re
> are any other similarities between cu and .i).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >> On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 2:35 AM, gleki <gleki.is.my.n...@gmail.= com>wrote:
>
> >>> Is it possible to completely get rid of {ku} in speech ? = Can we
> >>> rearrange words in extreme cases and use other cmavo like= {kei} and {cu} ?
>
> >>> --
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to t= he Google
> >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> >>> To view this discussion on the web visithttps://groups.google.com/= d/**
> >>> msg/lojban-beginners/-/**P3eUQjPdbJsJ<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/P3eUQjPdbJsJ><= br> > >>> .
> >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@goo= glegroups.**com<lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
> >>> .
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com<lojban-beginners%= 2Bunsubscr ibe@go= oglegroups.com>
> >>> .
> >>> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/**
> >>> group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den<http://group= s.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den>
> >>> .
>
> >> =A0--
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e Groups
> > "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginner= s/-/GaqDxupbMXQJ.
>
> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.co= m.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den= .
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo= 'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.


--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--f46d040713dd9d6c7a04bbad1812--