Received: from mail-wg0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]:61963) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SA6Ft-0004Wl-Qs; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:06:12 -0700 Received: by wgbdt10 with SMTP id dt10sf152181wgb.16 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:06:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=81vvFsJMGiuwR8HW36W0dR0smwVMyN4Wg51WAq94FZ0=; b=TSsVtqGXiLkNujSBiacy4NvfWTRnPoSE8vkzSTv100wJ5PjKvl3jHR7FmUz3O/MuYW XdFlNRmQLkfkzVS6zPn+eupJ3Nsb2bOpXHNwaRJETLBFFTBDK4mXVunwY+qWVfwSHm3x Os5wGATXyUiBXfR6RsmMGU4LdpdTXJ7yrVuFk= Received: by 10.180.95.161 with SMTP id dl1mr429511wib.0.1332277540555; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:05:40 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.51.204 with SMTP id b52ls90421eec.6.gmail; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:05:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.156.210 with SMTP id y18mr170839bkw.7.1332277539350; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:05:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.156.210 with SMTP id y18mr170838bkw.7.1332277539320; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:05:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f50.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f50.google.com [209.85.215.50]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o5si3167719bkz.0.2012.03.20.14.05.39 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:05:39 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.50 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.50; Received: by mail-lpp01m010-f50.google.com with SMTP id m13so395025lah.9 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:05:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.108.84 with SMTP id hi20mr1042869lab.22.1332277538990; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.148.225 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:05:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <24143939.1398.1332138901295.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynnk21> <19229634.6385.1332243517469.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynne2> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:05:38 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Is it possible to completely get rid of {ku} in speech ? From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec54eebf8742b3304bbb30993 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --bcaec54eebf8742b3304bbb30993 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 8:19 AM, ianek wrote: > An event of an event would be {lo nu nu ...} and I don't know what it > would mean, too. > More like {lo nu lo nu ...}. > Example: {lo nu bapli lo nu bebna lo nu bredi lo nu sipna}: An/The > event of forcing someone to be stupid about being ready to sleep. > Totally comprehensible. > > mu'o mi'e ianek > > On 20 Mar, 15:00, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > I didn't actually do the experimenting to determine such a thing myself, > so > > I really can't say exactly. > > > > However, your example is extremely contrived. I highly doubt that anyone > > would talk about an event of an event of an event of an event in any > > real-life situation, nor can I conceive of what such a thing is. I'm not > > even sure of what an event of an event is, let alone the fourth > iteration. > > (lodu'u broda losi'o brode lonu brodi , on the other hand, at least makes > > some sort of coherent sense to me, however.) > > > > Also, vlasisku.lojban.org appears to be down. Someone not about to go to > > sleep want to go on IRC and let Robin et al know? (It happens that while > I > > know there are other NU, si'o du'u and nu are the only ones I remember > off > > the top of my head.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 7:15 AM, MorphemeAddict > wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 9:10 AM, ianek wrote: > > > > >> On 20 Mar, 13:23, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > >> > Well, in that case, I recommend cu, not ku. cu is actually easily > > >> elidable, > > >> > unlike ku. I believe we determined not long ago that in the worst > case, > > >> it > > >> > would take a maximum of three terminators in the absence of cu to > > >> correctly > > >> > terminate a grammatical structure, and rarely more than one. > > > > >> What a about {lo nu broda lo nu brode lo nu brodi lo nu brodo ku ku ku > > >> ku brodu}? Jbofi'e says that it needs at least these four {ku} if we > > >> want to avoid {cu}. > > >> I like avoiding {cu}, but only when it doesn't require a string of > > >> more than two terminators. > > > > > Maybe the original meant three *distinct* terminators. You've used only > > > one, albeit four times. > > > > > stevo > > > > >> mu 'o mi'e ianek > > > > >> > cu is kind of like an optional half-.i, in that whereas .i > implicitly > > >> adds > > >> > whatever terminators are required to end the previous sentence and > > >> begin a > > >> > new one, cu does the same, but only up the point of the selbri (, > and > > >> > please keep in mind that that is where my comparison ends- I doubt > there > > >> > are any other similarities between cu and .i). > > > > >> > On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 5:38 AM, gleki > > >> wrote: > > >> > > Well. We are preparing a textbook that will teach how to speak > lojban. > > >> > > But this textbook must use as few words as possible. > > >> > > I wanna get rid of all words that can be replaced by other words. > > > > >> > > It's a textbook for newbies. So don't worry. It will be an > > >> introduction to > > >> > > Lojban. > > > > >> > > On Monday, March 19, 2012 10:49:14 AM UTC+4, stevo wrote: > > > > >> > >> Even if it is possible to eliminate {ku} in speech, why would you > > >> want to? > > > > >> > >> stevo > > > > >> > >> On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 2:35 AM, gleki < > gleki.is.my.n...@gmail.com > > >> >wrote: > > > > >> > >>> Is it possible to completely get rid of {ku} in speech ? Can we > > >> > >>> rearrange words in extreme cases and use other cmavo like {kei} > and > > >> {cu} ? > > > > >> > >>> -- > > >> > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google > > >> > >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. > > >> > >>> To view this discussion on the web visithttps:// > > >> groups.google.com/d/** > > >> > >>> msg/lojban-beginners/-/**P3eUQjPdbJsJ< > > >>https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/P3eUQjPdbJsJ> > > >> > >>> . > > >> > >>> To post to this group, send email to > lojban-beginners@googlegroups. > > >> **com > > >> > >>> . > > >> > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > >> > >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com > > >> ibe@googlegroups.com> > > >> > >>> . > > >> > >>> For more options, visit this group athttp:// > groups.google.com/** > > >> > >>> group/lojban-beginners?hl=en< > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en> > > >> > >>> . > > > > >> > >> -- > > >> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > >> Groups > > >> > > "Lojban Beginners" group. > > >> > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > >> > >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/GaqDxupbMXQJ. > > > > >> > > To post to this group, send email to > > >> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > > >> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > >> > > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > >> > > For more options, visit this group at > > >> > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > > > >> > -- > > >> > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > > > >> > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > > >> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > > > >> -- > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > >> "Lojban Beginners" group. > > >> To post to this group, send email to > lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > >> For more options, visit this group at > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "Lojban Beginners" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com > . > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > > > -- > > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --bcaec54eebf8742b3304bbb30993 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 8:19 AM, ianek <janek37@gmail.com>= wrote:
An event of an event would be {lo nu nu ...} and I don't know what it would mean, too.

More like {lo nu lo nu ...}.
= =A0
Example: {lo nu bapli lo nu bebna lo nu bredi lo nu sipna}: An/The
event of forcing someone to be stupid about being ready to sleep.
Totally comprehensible.

mu'o mi'e ianek

On 20 Mar, 15:00, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I didn't actually do the experimenting to determine such a thing m= yself, so
> I really can't say exactly.
>
> However, your example is extremely contrived. I highly doubt that anyo= ne
> would talk about an event of an event of an event of an event in any > real-life situation, nor can I conceive of what such a thing is. I'= ;m not
> even sure of what an event of an event is, let alone the fourth iterat= ion.
> (lodu'u broda losi'o brode lonu brodi , on the other hand, at = least makes
> some sort of coherent sense to me, however.)
>
> Also, vlasisk= u.lojban.org appears to be down. Someone not about to go to
> sleep want to go on IRC and let Robin et al know? (It happens that whi= le I
> know there are other NU, si'o du'u and nu are the only ones I = remember off
> the top of my head.)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 7:15 AM, MorphemeAddict <lytl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 9:10 AM, ianek <jane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> On 20 Mar, 13:23, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Well, in that case, I recommend cu, not ku. cu is actual= ly easily
> >> elidable,
> >> > unlike ku. I believe we determined not long ago that in = the worst case,
> >> it
> >> > would take a maximum of three terminators in the absence= of cu to
> >> correctly
> >> > terminate a grammatical structure, and rarely more than = one.
>
> >> What a about {lo nu broda lo nu brode lo nu brodi lo nu brodo= ku ku ku
> >> ku brodu}? Jbofi'e says that it needs at least these four= {ku} if we
> >> want to avoid {cu}.
> >> I like avoiding {cu}, but only when it doesn't require a = string of
> >> more than two terminators.
>
> > Maybe the original meant three *distinct* terminators. You&= #39;ve used only
> > one, albeit four times.
>
> > stevo
>
> >> mu 'o mi'e ianek
>
> >> > cu is kind of like an optional half-.i, in that whereas = .i implicitly
> >> adds
> >> > whatever terminators are required to end the previous se= ntence and
> >> begin a
> >> > new one, cu does the same, but only up the point of the = selbri (, and
> >> > please keep in mind that that is where my comparison end= s- I doubt there
> >> > are any other similarities between cu and .i).
>
> >> > On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 5:38 AM, gleki <gleki.is.my.n...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > > Well. We are preparing a textbook that will teach h= ow to speak lojban.
> >> > > But this textbook must use as few words as possible= .
> >> > > I wanna get rid of all words that can be replaced b= y other words.
>
> >> > > It's a textbook for newbies. So don't worry= . It will be an
> >> introduction to
> >> > > Lojban.
>
> >> > > On Monday, March 19, 2012 10:49:14 AM UTC+4, stevo = wrote:
>
> >> > >> Even if it is possible to eliminate {ku} in spe= ech, why would you
> >> want to?
>
> >> > >> stevo
>
> >> > >> On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 2:35 AM, gleki <gleki.is.my.n...@gmail.com > >> >wrote:
>
> >> > >>> Is it possible to completely get rid of {ku= } in speech ? Can we
> >> > >>> rearrange words in extreme cases and use ot= her cmavo like {kei} and
> >> {cu} ?
>
> >> > >>> --
> >> > >>> You received this message because you are s= ubscribed to the Google
> >> > >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.<= br> > >> > >>> To view this discussion on the web visithtt= ps://
> >> g= roups.google.com/d/**
> >> > >>> msg/lojban-beginners/-/**P3eUQjPdbJsJ< > >>https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-begi= nners/-/P3eUQjPdbJsJ>
> >> > >>> .
> >> > >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban= -beginners@googlegroups.
> >> **com<lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
> >> > >>> .
> >> > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email = to
> >> > >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com<lojban-be= ginners%2Bunsubscr
> >> ibe@googlegroups.com<= /a>>
> >> > >>> .
> >> > >>> For more options, visit this group athttp:/= /
groups.google.co= m/**
> >> > >>> group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den<
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl= =3Den>
> >> > >>> .
>
> >> > >> =A0--
> >> > > You received this message because you are subscribe= d to the Google
> >> Groups
> >> > > "Lojban Beginners" group.
> >> > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> >> > >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/l= ojban-beginners/-/GaqDxupbMXQJ.
>
> >> > > To post to this group, send email to
> >> lojban-b= eginners@googlegroups.com.
> >> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> > > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> >> > > For more options, visit this group at
> >> > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beg= inners?hl=3Den.
>
> >> > --
> >> > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> >> > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. = mi patfu do zo'o
> >> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the G= oogle Groups
> >> "Lojban Beginners" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl= =3Den.
>
> > =A0--
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e Groups
> > "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den= .
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo= 'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.




--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--bcaec54eebf8742b3304bbb30993--