Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]:48781)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncCMLaiI6rCBDn6KP7BBoEF16noA@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1SA6TM-0004aT-W6; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:20:20 -0700
Received: by ggmi2 with SMTP id i2sf493952ggm.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:19:57 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:references:user-agent
         :x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type
         :content-transfer-encoding;
        bh=lckOjNzPHqbkuocqgiwgwrajqliEXL9TS2G4j4APi9A=;
        b=6zJtoX5IUBg1Qi0D2SNG3UlVqgSBJEXKIcSDLUgToj8SWVCF2jprkTE+trQYxX8smk
         qOqLgTz6secyNsKzbx9zxCl/shSKzgu4Ml7GrtNevo3dgepuiH2c3dgCbr8hhjkBUS7a
         9VzIPt1U9S81Jiser94Vm1i2qj2jAPQvHWfB4=
Received: by 10.236.143.70 with SMTP id k46mr579735yhj.16.1332278375541;
        Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:19:35 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.236.16.39 with SMTP id g27ls725240yhg.9.gmail; Tue, 20 Mar
 2012 14:19:34 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.236.148.18 with SMTP id u18mr588313yhj.13.1332278374793; Tue,
 20 Mar 2012 14:19:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by b18g2000vbz.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:19:34
 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:19:34 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CAMKwHj3ckk4tcOV+vqc_hnBPHG-4hW-DbSD3f11WZK2Po7R56Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <24143939.1398.1332138901295.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynnk21>
 <CAHiXx=Nn_Whs+EZ=2O09vv_+-jAL8m7RLAc1pNUVeiT1dD=7NQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <19229634.6385.1332243517469.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynne2>
 <CAMKwHj0TWu6hC1hRZTYUQVF8DurO0LTCPxNSyQtQgrizfZEKSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <ad4a2316-4a0b-436c-a597-94cfad79c53c@gw9g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
 <CAHiXx=Oe=nVpc715GFx+XAB3CbsZPNny7v6XhYHAMHuH5DgdJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMKwHj1-dypyMH_n=s0PP-rSkKFWf4awq=PhVAH+UPWLh7UkDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <f5788471-ccb5-4159-838a-9034647c17f7@b18g2000vbz.googlegroups.com> <CAMKwHj3ckk4tcOV+vqc_hnBPHG-4hW-DbSD3f11WZK2Po7R56Q@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML,
 like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.79 Safari/535.11,gzip(gfe)
Message-ID: <e6d76cc6-567a-4611-a1f2-8382e1f85db2@b18g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Is it possible to completely get rid of {ku}
 in speech ?
From: ianek <janek37@gmail.com>
To: Lojban Beginners <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
X-Original-Sender: janek37@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain
 of janek37@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=janek37@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:googlegroups-manage+300742228892+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.7
X-Spam_score_int: -6
X-Spam_bar: /



On 20 Mar, 22:05, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 8:19 AM, ianek <jane...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > An event of an event would be {lo nu nu ...} and I don't know what it
> > would mean, too.
>
> More like {lo nu lo nu ...}.

Why? {lo nu lo nu ...} would be grammatical only if there's a selbri
after the inner {lo nu}. And then it's not an event of an event, but
an event of that selbri, with an event as x1.
Meanwhile, {lo nu nu broda} is "An event of nu broda", ie. "An event
of [something being] an event of broda".

mu'o mi'e ianek

> > Example: {lo nu bapli lo nu bebna lo nu bredi lo nu sipna}: An/The
> > event of forcing someone to be stupid about being ready to sleep.
> > Totally comprehensible.
>
> > mu'o mi'e ianek
>
> > On 20 Mar, 15:00, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I didn't actually do the experimenting to determine such a thing myse=
lf,
> > so
> > > I really can't say exactly.
>
> > > However, your example is extremely contrived. I highly doubt that any=
one
> > > would talk about an event of an event of an event of an event in any
> > > real-life situation, nor can I conceive of what such a thing is. I'm =
not
> > > even sure of what an event of an event is, let alone the fourth
> > iteration.
> > > (lodu'u broda losi'o brode lonu brodi , on the other hand, at least m=
akes
> > > some sort of coherent sense to me, however.)
>
> > > Also, vlasisku.lojban.org appears to be down. Someone not about to go=
 to
> > > sleep want to go on IRC and let Robin et al know? (It happens that wh=
ile
> > I
> > > know there are other NU, si'o du'u and nu are the only ones I remembe=
r
> > off
> > > the top of my head.)
>
> > > On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 7:15 AM, MorphemeAddict <lytl...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > > On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 9:10 AM, ianek <jane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> On 20 Mar, 13:23, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> > Well, in that case, I recommend cu, not ku. cu is actually easil=
y
> > > >> elidable,
> > > >> > unlike ku. I believe we determined not long ago that in the wors=
t
> > case,
> > > >> it
> > > >> > would take a maximum of three terminators in the absence of cu t=
o
> > > >> correctly
> > > >> > terminate a grammatical structure, and rarely more than one.
>
> > > >> What a about {lo nu broda lo nu brode lo nu brodi lo nu brodo ku k=
u ku
> > > >> ku brodu}? Jbofi'e says that it needs at least these four {ku} if =
we
> > > >> want to avoid {cu}.
> > > >> I like avoiding {cu}, but only when it doesn't require a string of
> > > >> more than two terminators.
>
> > > > Maybe the original meant three *distinct* terminators. You've used =
only
> > > > one, albeit four times.
>
> > > > stevo
>
> > > >> mu 'o mi'e ianek
>
> > > >> > cu is kind of like an optional half-.i, in that whereas .i
> > implicitly
> > > >> adds
> > > >> > whatever terminators are required to end the previous sentence a=
nd
> > > >> begin a
> > > >> > new one, cu does the same, but only up the point of the selbri (=
,
> > and
> > > >> > please keep in mind that that is where my comparison ends- I dou=
bt
> > there
> > > >> > are any other similarities between cu and .i).
>
> > > >> > On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 5:38 AM, gleki <gleki.is.my.n...@gmail.c=
om>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> > > Well. We are preparing a textbook that will teach how to speak
> > lojban.
> > > >> > > But this textbook must use as few words as possible.
> > > >> > > I wanna get rid of all words that can be replaced by other wor=
ds.
>
> > > >> > > It's a textbook for newbies. So don't worry. It will be an
> > > >> introduction to
> > > >> > > Lojban.
>
> > > >> > > On Monday, March 19, 2012 10:49:14 AM UTC+4, stevo wrote:
>
> > > >> > >> Even if it is possible to eliminate {ku} in speech, why would=
 you
> > > >> want to?
>
> > > >> > >> stevo
>
> > > >> > >> On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 2:35 AM, gleki <
> > gleki.is.my.n...@gmail.com
> > > >> >wrote:
>
> > > >> > >>> Is it possible to completely get rid of {ku} in speech ? Can=
 we
> > > >> > >>> rearrange words in extreme cases and use other cmavo like {k=
ei}
> > and
> > > >> {cu} ?
>
> > > >> > >>> --
> > > >> > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> > Google
> > > >> > >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > > >> > >>> To view this discussion on the web visithttps://
> > > >> groups.google.com/d/**
> > > >> > >>> msg/lojban-beginners/-/**P3eUQjPdbJsJ<
> > > >>https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/P3eUQjPdbJsJ>
> > > >> > >>> .
> > > >> > >>> To post to this group, send email to
> > lojban-beginners@googlegroups.
> > > >> **com<lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
> > > >> > >>> .
> > > >> > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > >> > >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com
> > <lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscr
> > > >> ibe@googlegroups.com>
> > > >> > >>> .
> > > >> > >>> For more options, visit this group athttp://
> > groups.google.com/**
> > > >> > >>> group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den<
> > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den>
> > > >> > >>> .
>
> > > >> > >> =A0--
> > > >> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Go=
ogle
> > > >> Groups
> > > >> > > "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > > >> > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > > >> > >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/GaqDxupbMXQJ=
.
>
> > > >> > > To post to this group, send email to
> > > >> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> > > >> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > >> > > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > > >> > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > >> > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
>
> > > >> > --
> > > >> > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> > > >> > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do =
zo'o
> > > >> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
> > > >> --
> > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups
> > > >> "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > > >> To post to this group, send email to
> > lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> > > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > > >> For more options, visit this group at
> > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
>
> > > > =A0--
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups
> > > > "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.=
com
> > .
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
>
> > > --
> > > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> > > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou=
ps
> > "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.