Received: from mail-fa0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]:39607) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SALdT-0002tY-Dg; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:31:35 -0700 Received: by fabs1 with SMTP id s1sf880605fab.16 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:31:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=SdqBYPJcp5MKpZ9I35aN8UMHnzvuTvSCqTxvJ6ndNbM=; b=bbbpqwpeXqFdOGSFxCV3F+wi6/iYBhOwEYGxj0NXQu0Mvd1OloFhGBvBMdqyHvuS14 FHglZq97Dk2wrAfhBIUr4nlzV3IWWxt2eii6bLkdD8F/tNJuT35MvfpjtzmAVPIo3ODS ZrlDCfWun6beH7B0ie22i//Olq36RQ257v4JY= Received: by 10.205.136.196 with SMTP id il4mr416373bkc.9.1332336662139; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:31:02 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.143.211 with SMTP id w19ls1116178bku.9.gmail; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.133.213 with SMTP id g21mr446675bkt.3.1332336660333; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.133.213 with SMTP id g21mr446673bkt.3.1332336660311; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-f180.google.com (mail-lb0-f180.google.com [209.85.217.180]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ba12si2162348bkb.2.2012.03.21.06.31.00 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.217.180; Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so1407753lbo.39 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:30:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.108.84 with SMTP id hi20mr2863287lab.22.1332336659885; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.148.225 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:30:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4F69D44F.9080305@plasmatix.com> References: <24143939.1398.1332138901295.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynnk21> <2371108.1969.1332312889960.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynjl17> <4F69D44F.9080305@plasmatix.com> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 07:30:59 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Is it possible to completely get rid of {ku} in speech ? From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.180 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec54eebf8556ff204bbc0cda3 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --bcaec54eebf8556ff204bbc0cda3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Agreed. While cu is a very versatile cmavo, and is quite frequently used specifically because of this, I doubt there is a single jbopre among us who does not think that teaching terminators is /extremely/ important, /especially/ in the very beginning. When cu is eventually introduced, it's function is made much more clear and understandable as a result, as well. On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 7:14 AM, selpa'i wrote: > You may think it's easier without ku, but it will cause problems for the > students later on. I strongly recommend teaching full terminators from the > beginning on. Teach how to elide them a bit later. Trust the people here > who tell you to teach terminators. We have a lot of experience teaching > beginners and this method has proven effective again and again. > > Am 21.03.2012 07:54, schrieb gleki: > > My point was to teach in the form of > {lo broda cu brode lo brodi lo brodo be lo brodu} > In this case student can learn only "lo". > Otherwise they will have to learn > {lo broda ku brode lo brodi ku lo brodo be lo brodu [ku ku]} > which is a bit more bulky and harder to understand. > > {lo} without looks like "a" or "the" in English. > {lo ... ku} looks like a programming language which is not easy for > everyone. > > On Monday, March 19, 2012 10:35:01 AM UTC+4, gleki wrote: >> >> Is it possible to completely get rid of {ku} in speech ? Can we rearrange >> words in extreme cases and use other cmavo like {kei} and {cu} ? >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/jr0LeEnGOJUJ. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > > > -- > .i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna > .i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --bcaec54eebf8556ff204bbc0cda3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Agreed. While cu is a very versatile cmavo, and is quite frequently used sp= ecifically because of this, I doubt there is a single jbopre among us who d= oes not think that teaching terminators is /extremely/ important, /especial= ly/ in the very beginning.

When cu is eventually introduced, it's function is made much more c= lear and understandable as a result, as well.

On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 7:14 AM, selpa'i <m3o@plasmatix.com> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
You may think it's easier without ku, but it will cause problems fo= r the students later on. I strongly recommend teaching full terminators from the beginning on. Teach how to elide them a bit later. Trust the people here who tell you to teach terminators. We have a lot of experience teaching beginners and this method has proven effective again and again.

Am 21.03.2012 07:54, schrieb gleki:
My point wa= s to teach in the form of
{lo broda cu brode lo brodi lo brodo be lo brodu}
In this case student can learn only "lo".
Otherwise they will have to learn
{lo broda ku brode lo brodi ku lo brodo be lo brodu=A0[ku ku]}
which is a bit more bulky and harder to understand.

{lo} without looks like "a" or "the" in Engl= ish.
{lo ... ku} looks like a programming language which is not easy for everyone.

On Monday, March 19, 2012 10:35:01 AM UTC+4, gleki wrote:
Is it possible to completely get rid of {ku} in speech ? Can we rearrange words in extreme cases and use other cmavo like {kei} and {cu} ?
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://g= roups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/jr0LeEnGOJUJ.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.


--=20
.i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna=20
.i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla

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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
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