Received: from mail-bk0-f61.google.com ([209.85.214.61]:59549) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SALdm-0002vH-9p; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:31:54 -0700 Received: by bkcjg9 with SMTP id jg9sf797685bkc.16 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:31:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=TcNw871brdD4DVWqlyIgPppn4bsdPPEWZHYdY+Ec054=; b=Ffr4OI9C/2NXN2Smydzn1SKN2mVzqiLvFl0rBLNM1HBk7nZBVzjDYsujuF2Mwx4Zf3 pfWGD8VbOh2LeeheCoymhkaXvl/wyubshncGjwWGt10h9OFbVvG0gXkpneUK0LqABxxh ktzBNvTfHfBsIYe4TRgEnNJKpxR9u1UCD4Kg8= Received: by 10.204.129.83 with SMTP id n19mr399108bks.20.1332336681242; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:31:21 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.205.142.4 with SMTP id jg4ls1134243bkc.6.gmail; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:31:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.205.119.5 with SMTP id fs5mr174321bkc.7.1332336680334; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:31:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.205.119.5 with SMTP id fs5mr174320bkc.7.1332336680309; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:31:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f41.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f41.google.com [209.85.215.41]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 8si2167198bka.1.2012.03.21.06.31.20 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:31:20 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.41 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.41; Received: by lagz14 with SMTP id z14so982338lag.0 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:31:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.112.100 with SMTP id ip4mr2917582lab.1.1332336679906; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:31:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.148.225 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:31:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <24143939.1398.1332138901295.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynnk21> <2371108.1969.1332312889960.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynjl17> <4F69D44F.9080305@plasmatix.com> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 07:31:19 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Is it possible to completely get rid of {ku} in speech ? From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d040838fd86ed8e04bbc0ce5b X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --f46d040838fd86ed8e04bbc0ce5b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 (I hate it when I use the worng its....) On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 7:30 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > Agreed. While cu is a very versatile cmavo, and is quite frequently used > specifically because of this, I doubt there is a single jbopre among us who > does not think that teaching terminators is /extremely/ important, > /especially/ in the very beginning. > > When cu is eventually introduced, it's function is made much more clear > and understandable as a result, as well. > > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 7:14 AM, selpa'i wrote: > >> You may think it's easier without ku, but it will cause problems for the >> students later on. I strongly recommend teaching full terminators from the >> beginning on. Teach how to elide them a bit later. Trust the people here >> who tell you to teach terminators. We have a lot of experience teaching >> beginners and this method has proven effective again and again. >> >> Am 21.03.2012 07:54, schrieb gleki: >> >> My point was to teach in the form of >> {lo broda cu brode lo brodi lo brodo be lo brodu} >> In this case student can learn only "lo". >> Otherwise they will have to learn >> {lo broda ku brode lo brodi ku lo brodo be lo brodu [ku ku]} >> which is a bit more bulky and harder to understand. >> >> {lo} without looks like "a" or "the" in English. >> {lo ... ku} looks like a programming language which is not easy for >> everyone. >> >> On Monday, March 19, 2012 10:35:01 AM UTC+4, gleki wrote: >>> >>> Is it possible to completely get rid of {ku} in speech ? Can we >>> rearrange words in extreme cases and use other cmavo like {kei} and {cu} ? >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/jr0LeEnGOJUJ. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> >> >> -- >> .i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna >> .i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --f46d040838fd86ed8e04bbc0ce5b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (I hate it when I use the worng its....)

= On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 7:30 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
=
Agreed. While cu is a very versatile cmavo, and is quite frequently used sp= ecifically because of this, I doubt there is a single jbopre among us who d= oes not think that teaching terminators is /extremely/ important, /especial= ly/ in the very beginning.

When cu is eventually introduced, it's function is made much more c= lear and understandable as a result, as well.


On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 7:14 AM, sel= pa'i <m3o@plasmatix.com> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
You may think it's easier without ku, but it will cause problems fo= r the students later on. I strongly recommend teaching full terminators from the beginning on. Teach how to elide them a bit later. Trust the people here who tell you to teach terminators. We have a lot of experience teaching beginners and this method has proven effective again and again.

Am 21.03.2012 07:54, schrieb gleki:
My point was to teach in= the form of
{lo broda cu brode lo brodi lo brodo be lo brodu}
In this case student can learn only "lo".
Otherwise they will have to learn
{lo broda ku brode lo brodi ku lo brodo be lo brodu=A0[ku ku]}
which is a bit more bulky and harder to understand.

{lo} without looks like "a" or "the" in Engl= ish.
{lo ... ku} looks like a programming language which is not easy for everyone.

On Monday, March 19, 2012 10:35:01 AM UTC+4, gleki wrote:
Is it possible to completely get rid of {ku} in speech ? Can we rearrange words in extreme cases and use other cmavo like {kei} and {cu} ?
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://g= roups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/jr0LeEnGOJUJ.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.



<= div>
--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e&#= 39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )




--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--f46d040838fd86ed8e04bbc0ce5b--