Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]:34999) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SANZm-00051U-JH; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:35:52 -0700 Received: by yenm3 with SMTP id m3sf1579232yen.16 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:35:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=4fAf4w5TQMnxdVTIGGsZvxixkArZAaPcpPheT0NHuJY=; b=h2N9LYpbJoSjzlaObodUGKViyeEV+CgzHUoISVzOQT36LTVNfc9NU0ClsMfqJ49PA7 sXFaVxQTZpq/4944nJ/ctXloo08zxIXu8SJl3m+PTp4Vl8ktv72ChKmPM41wZtXDPC2F nWv24pWYzNCruU2nPi4yXZiWmRaj1PnHSN+zY= Received: by 10.68.122.194 with SMTP id lu2mr1048309pbb.7.1332344122583; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:35:22 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.74.5 with SMTP id p5ls4185768pbv.7.gmail; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:35:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.228.5 with SMTP id se5mr1054579pbc.4.1332344122087; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:35:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:35:21 -0700 (PDT) From: gleki To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Message-ID: <18514548.80.1332344121171.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynbq18> In-Reply-To: References: <24143939.1398.1332138901295.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynnk21> <2371108.1969.1332312889960.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynjl17> <4F69D44F.9080305@plasmatix.com> Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Is it possible to completely get rid of {ku} in speech ? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_79_11332984.1332344121169" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_79_11332984.1332344121169 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 OK. Actually our textbook already uses *lo ... ku* instead of *lo.* I considered changing it to *lo & cu *but let it remain as it is. On Wednesday, March 21, 2012 5:30:59 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote: > > Agreed. While cu is a very versatile cmavo, and is quite frequently used > specifically because of this, I doubt there is a single jbopre among us who > does not think that teaching terminators is /extremely/ important, > /especially/ in the very beginning. > > When cu is eventually introduced, it's function is made much more clear > and understandable as a result, as well. > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 7:14 AM, selpa'i wrote: > >> You may think it's easier without ku, but it will cause problems for the >> students later on. I strongly recommend teaching full terminators from the >> beginning on. Teach how to elide them a bit later. Trust the people here >> who tell you to teach terminators. We have a lot of experience teaching >> beginners and this method has proven effective again and again. >> >> Am 21.03.2012 07:54, schrieb gleki: >> >> My point was to teach in the form of >> {lo broda cu brode lo brodi lo brodo be lo brodu} >> In this case student can learn only "lo". >> Otherwise they will have to learn >> {lo broda ku brode lo brodi ku lo brodo be lo brodu [ku ku]} >> which is a bit more bulky and harder to understand. >> >> {lo} without looks like "a" or "the" in English. >> {lo ... ku} looks like a programming language which is not easy for >> everyone. >> >> On Monday, March 19, 2012 10:35:01 AM UTC+4, gleki wrote: >>> >>> Is it possible to completely get rid of {ku} in speech ? Can we >>> rearrange words in extreme cases and use other cmavo like {kei} and {cu} ? >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/jr0LeEnGOJUJ. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> >> >> -- >> .i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna >> .i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/fcMtD2ijxOMJ. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. ------=_Part_79_11332984.1332344121169 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK. Actually our textbook already uses lo ... ku instead of lo.
I considered changing it to lo & cu but let it remain as = it is.

On Wednesday, March 21, 2012 5:30:59 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote:<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;bord= er-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">Agreed. While cu is a very vers= atile cmavo, and is quite frequently used specifically because of this, I d= oubt there is a single jbopre among us who does not think that teaching ter= minators is /extremely/ important, /especially/ in the very beginning.

When cu is eventually introduced, it's function is made much more clear= and understandable as a result, as well.

On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 7:14 AM, selpa'i <m3o@plasmatix.com> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
You may think it's easier without ku, but it will cause problems for the students later on. I strongly recommend teaching full terminators from the beginning on. Teach how to elide them a bit later. Trust the people here who tell you to teach terminators. We have a lot of experience teaching beginners and this method has proven effective again and again.

Am 21.03.2012 07:54, schrieb gleki:
My point was to teach in= the form of
{lo broda cu brode lo brodi lo brodo be lo brodu}
In this case student can learn only "lo".
Otherwise they will have to learn
{lo broda ku brode lo brodi ku lo brodo be lo brodu [ku ku]= }
which is a bit more bulky and harder to understand.

{lo} without looks like "a" or "the" in English.
{lo ... ku} looks like a programming language which is not easy for everyone.

On Monday, March 19, 2012 10:35:01 AM UTC+4, gleki wrote:
Is it possible to completely get rid of {ku} in speech ? Can we rearrange words in extreme cases and use other cmavo like {kei} and {cu} ?
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://g= roups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/jr0LeEnGOJUJ.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3D= en.


--=20
.i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna=20
.i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com= .
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/<= wbr>group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi'e .= aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu= do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/l= ojban-beginners/-/fcMtD2ijxOMJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
------=_Part_79_11332984.1332344121169--