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From: arcady.balandin@gmail.com
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Is it possible to completely get rid of
  {ku} in speech ?
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On Friday, March 23, 2012 12:10:13 AM UTC+4, Pierre Abbat wrote:
>
> On Thursday, March 22, 2012 10:15:45 gleki wrote:
> > https://sites.google.com/site/=E2=80=8Bcernidirgo/menli-bangu-put-=E2=
=80=8Bkoteenka<https://sites.google.com/site/cernidirgo/menli-bangu-put-kot=
eenka>
> >=20
> > The Kitten's Way is still in progress.
>
> I don't know Russian well enough to translate into it, but I can read it=
=20
> fairly well.
>
> In the Cyrillic alphabet for Lojban, =D1=8A, not =D1=8B, is used for y. =
=D0=AA is not=20
> used as=20
> a vowel in Russian, but it is in Bulgarian, and as I understand it (I=20
> don't=20
> speak Bulgarian), it's closer to Lojban y than =D1=8B is.
>
We don't teach Cyrillic writing system there. It's just transcription.
Unstressed "=D1=8B" sounds like "schwa". It's just like we  all hear it.=20
Although we are not experts.

> mi dunda lo plise ku fa'a do - =D1=8F =D0=B4=D0=B0=D1=8E =D1=8F=D0=B1=D0=
=BB=D0=BE=D0=BA=D0=BE =D1=82=D0=B5=D0=B1=D0=B5.
> I'd say "mi dunda lo plise ku do". "fa'a" is not a proper preposition but=
=20
> a=20
> spatial tense marker (though all tense markers can be used as=20
> prepositions)=20
> and doesn't denote motion unless preceded by "mo'i".
>
Do you really think that {mi dunda ti fa'a do} can't have any meaning ?
It's just what the Kitten's Way is all about.
We replace x3 with sumtcita in first lessons. Only then we learn about x3
It's just the policy of this textbook.

> zo'e pe do - =D1=87=D1=82=D0=BE-=D1=82=D0=BE =D0=BE =D1=82=D0=B5=D0=B1=D0=
=B5
> "pe" isn't a preposition. It can be used to attach a prepositional phrase=
=20
> to a=20
> sumti (e.g. "le renro pe pa'o lo canko" means "the thrower who is through=
=20
> a=20
> window", which is different from "le renro be pa'o lo canko" which means=
=20
> "the=20
> thrower through a window", i.e. he throws something through a window).=20
> "pe" is=20
> in the same selma'o as "goi", which does something quite=20
> un-preposition-like.
>
> > xu do cusku bau la .lojban. ? (=D0=A2=D1=8B =D0=B3=D0=BE=D0=B2=D0=BE=D1=
=80=D0=B8=D1=88=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B0 =D0=9B=D0=BE=D0=B6=D0=B1=D0=B0=D0=BD=D0=
=B5 ?)
> For "Do you speak Lojban?" I'd say "xu do se bangu la lojban". Is "=D0=A2=
=D1=8B=20
> =D0=B3=D0=BE=D0=B2=D0=BE=D1=80=D0=B8=D1=88=D1=8C=20
> =D0=BF=D0=BE-=D0=BB=D0=BE=D0=B6=D0=B1=D0=B0=D0=BD=D1=81=D0=BA=D0=B8" prop=
er Russian?
>
It is. ki'e. We need to find another example for {bau}.
=20

> Btw, what about "=D0=B1=D1=83=D1=80=D1=83=D1=88=D0=B0=D1=81=D0=BA=D0=B8=
=D0=B9 =D1=8F=D0=B7=D1=8B=D0=BA"? (language=20
> isolate spoken in Hunza) You may want to point out that "xu", like "=D0=
=BB=D0=B8",=20
> can=20
> follow the word being questioned.
>
> > ti me ma (=D0=AD=D1=82=D0=BE =D1=87=D1=82=D0=BE ?)
> > plise (=D1=8F=D0=B1=D0=BB=D0=BE=D0=BA=D0=BE)
> That has to be either "ti me ma? =E2=80=94 lo plise" or "ti mo? =E2=80=94=
 plise". "=D0=A7=D1=82=D0=BE =D0=BE=D0=BD=20
> =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BB=D0=B0=D0=B5=D1=82" is "mo", not "me ma".
>
Oh, indeed.
=20

> Enough comments for now. Keep up the good work!
>
> Pierre
> --=20
> lo ponse be lo mruli po'o cu ga'ezga roda lo ka dinko
>

ki'esai  doi .pier.

--=20
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On Friday, March 23, 2012 12:10:13 AM UTC+4, Pierre Abbat wrote:<blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On Thursday, March 22, 2012 10:15:45 glek=
i wrote:<br>&gt; <a href=3D"https://sites.google.com/site/cernidirgo/menli-=
bangu-put-koteenka" target=3D"_blank">https://sites.google.com/site/=E2=80=
=8Bcernidirgo/menli-bangu-put-=E2=80=8Bkoteenka</a><br>&gt; <br>&gt; The Ki=
tten's Way is still in progress.<p>I don't know Russian well enough to tran=
slate into it, but I can read it <br>fairly well.</p><p>In the Cyrillic alp=
habet for Lojban, =D1=8A, not =D1=8B, is used for y. =D0=AA is not used as =
<br>a vowel in Russian, but it is in Bulgarian, and as I understand it (I d=
on't <br>speak Bulgarian), it's closer to Lojban y than =D1=8B is.</p></blo=
ckquote><div>We don't teach Cyrillic writing system there. It's just transc=
ription.</div><div>Unstressed "=D1=8B" sounds like "schwa". It's just like =
we &nbsp;all hear it. Although we are not experts.</div><div><br></div><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-=
left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><p>&gt; mi dunda lo plise ku fa'a =
do - =D1=8F =D0=B4=D0=B0=D1=8E =D1=8F=D0=B1=D0=BB=D0=BE=D0=BA=D0=BE =D1=82=
=D0=B5=D0=B1=D0=B5.<br>I'd say "mi dunda lo plise ku do". "fa'a" is not a p=
roper preposition but a <br>spatial tense marker (though all tense markers =
can be used as prepositions) <br>and doesn't denote motion unless preceded =
by "mo'i".</p></blockquote><div>Do you really think that {mi dunda ti fa'a =
do} can't have any meaning ?</div><div>It's just what the Kitten's Way is a=
ll about.</div><div>We replace x3 with sumtcita in first lessons. Only then=
 we learn about x3</div><div>It's just the policy of this textbook.</div><d=
iv><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-le=
ft: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><p>&gt; zo'e pe d=
o - =D1=87=D1=82=D0=BE-=D1=82=D0=BE =D0=BE =D1=82=D0=B5=D0=B1=D0=B5<br>"pe"=
 isn't a preposition. It can be used to attach a prepositional phrase to a =
<br>sumti (e.g. "le renro pe pa'o lo canko" means "the thrower who is throu=
gh a <br>window", which is different from "le renro be pa'o lo canko" which=
 means "the <br>thrower through a window", i.e. he throws something through=
 a window). "pe" is <br>in the same selma'o as "goi", which does something =
quite un-preposition-like.</p><p>&gt; xu do cusku bau la .lojban. ? (=D0=A2=
=D1=8B =D0=B3=D0=BE=D0=B2=D0=BE=D1=80=D0=B8=D1=88=D1=8C =D0=BD=D0=B0 =D0=9B=
=D0=BE=D0=B6=D0=B1=D0=B0=D0=BD=D0=B5 ?)<br>For "Do you speak Lojban?" I'd s=
ay "xu do se bangu la lojban". Is "=D0=A2=D1=8B =D0=B3=D0=BE=D0=B2=D0=BE=D1=
=80=D0=B8=D1=88=D1=8C <br>=D0=BF=D0=BE-=D0=BB=D0=BE=D0=B6=D0=B1=D0=B0=D0=BD=
=D1=81=D0=BA=D0=B8" proper Russian?</p></blockquote><div>It is. ki'e. We ne=
ed to find another example for {bau}.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #=
ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><p> Btw, what about "=D0=B1=D1=83=D1=80=D1=83=
=D1=88=D0=B0=D1=81=D0=BA=D0=B8=D0=B9 =D1=8F=D0=B7=D1=8B=D0=BA"? (language <=
br>isolate spoken in Hunza) You may want to point out that "xu", like "=D0=
=BB=D0=B8", can <br>follow the word being questioned.</p><p>&gt; ti me ma (=
=D0=AD=D1=82=D0=BE =D1=87=D1=82=D0=BE ?)<br>&gt; plise (=D1=8F=D0=B1=D0=BB=
=D0=BE=D0=BA=D0=BE)<br>That has to be either "ti me ma? =E2=80=94 lo plise"=
 or "ti mo? =E2=80=94 plise". "=D0=A7=D1=82=D0=BE =D0=BE=D0=BD <br>=D0=B4=
=D0=B5=D0=BB=D0=B0=D0=B5=D1=82" is "mo", not "me ma".</p></blockquote><div>=
Oh, indeed.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: =
1ex;"><p>Enough comments for now. Keep up the good work!</p><p>Pierre<br>--=
 <br>lo ponse be lo mruli po'o cu ga'ezga roda lo ka dinko<br></p></blockqu=
ote><div><br></div><div>ki'esai &nbsp;doi .pier.</div>

<p></p>

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