Received: from mail-fa0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]:39700) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SBqIi-0007zA-LG; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:28:20 -0700 Received: by fabs1 with SMTP id s1sf3179351fab.16 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:28:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=VVPV/EvRj4RwY4MVt4pn/Mlbp90Z2IWjKZQWElRvxbM=; b=LDUWBdYu1yXPgUOpfJJqGN9s/ppPgxmG37bxCmMx4n5WK5CLXefrkpivOeHOl9ztKi Rx+/7xeL3vDb+cYtO+E1ibdQIkGJDOMMkE/EdSfEwvS8xYuqMEMNUIs+Deg7WRqI0eHA yNfa0e0cp5lA8dIq0F06XYUuJ/Af8Z1O52wzM= Received: by 10.204.130.196 with SMTP id u4mr1528923bks.14.1332692864206; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:27:44 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.128.220 with SMTP id l28ls5215908bks.8.gmail; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.131.75 with SMTP id w11mr1889897bks.0.1332692863270; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.131.75 with SMTP id w11mr1889896bks.0.1332692863243; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f48.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f48.google.com [209.85.215.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 8si18096608bka.1.2012.03.25.09.27.43 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of so.cool.ogi@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.48 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.48; Received: by lagu2 with SMTP id u2so4646993lag.35 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:27:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.8.201 with SMTP id t9mr7127395lba.51.1332692862784; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.9.8 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:27:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <24222881.92.1332690232809.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynjk1> References: <7667321.521.1332662001096.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbvs10> <24714118.122.1332683393922.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynuu20> <24222881.92.1332690232809.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynjk1> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 18:27:42 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Younger sister and older brother. Any lujvo suggestions ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sebastian_Fr=F6jd?= To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: so.cool.ogi@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of so.cool.ogi@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.48 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=so.cool.ogi@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e0cb4efe2906ae568e04bc13bc27 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --e0cb4efe2906ae568e04bc13bc27 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable But the lujvo definition doesn't have to be identical with the tanru counterpart. I think the most useful definition should be used as the lujvo definition. My proposal: citme'i: x1 is a little sister of/sororal to x2 [younger than x2] by bond/tie/standard/parent(s) x3; [not necessarily biological]. tolcitme'i: x1 is a big sister of/sororal to x2 [older than x2] by bond/tie/standard/parent(s) x3; [not necessarily biological]. In this way you could make distinctions with tanru like: ri cu citrai/citno/-/tolcitno/tolcitrai citme'i/tolcitme'i/mensi/bruna/citybu'a/tolcitybu'a mi 30 different kind of brothers and sisters including the elliptical/unspecified alternatives. mu'omi'e jongausib Den 25 mars 2012 17:43 skrev gleki : > I wonder how Asian languages work then > > > On Sunday, March 25, 2012 6:18:28 PM UTC+4, stevo wrote: >> >> An older/younger sibling is older/younger relative to the person whose >> sibling they are. E.g., My younger brother is younger than *I* am. >> I've had a problem all my life with describing my brother who is a year >> younger than I am. I've called him my older brother, because he's the ol= der >> of my two brothers, but he's still younger than I am. OTOH, calling him = my >> older brother implies that he is older than I am. (Now I just don't talk >> about him.) >> So the seltau {citmau} may not be the best word to use for the meaning >> you want. >> stevo >> >> On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 9:49 AM, gleki wrote= : >> >>> So {citmau mensi} ? >>> Several languages in Tatoeba look like they have separate words for >>> older and younger sister. >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, March 25, 2012 5:17:29 PM UTC+4, stevo wrote: >>>> >>>> Why do you need lujvo for such words? I suggest trying it with tanru >>>> first, then if the need (or desire) is great enough, create a lujvo. >>>> >>>> stevo >>>> >>>> On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 3:53 AM, gleki wro= te: >>>> >>>>> In some languages there are specific words for younger sister, older >>>>> sister. >>>>> This is the problem I faced in Tatoeba when translating some sentence= s. >>>>> >>>>> I believe we need lujvo for such words. >>>>> {citmau} or {citno} {mensi} are ambiguous. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bmsg/lojban-beginners/-/= =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BImGVPwDC9IEJ >>>>> . >>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bcom >>>>> . >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bgooglegroups.com >>>>> . >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bgroup/lojban-beginners?hl= =3Den >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/=E2=80=8Bmsg/lojban-beginners/-/=E2=80=8BTT= 9R9d0gLKAJ >>> . >>> >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.=E2= =80=8Bcom >>> . >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=E2=80=8Bgooglegroups.com >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/=E2=80=8Bgroup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den >>> . >>> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/5R3MMnfH2LUJ. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. --e0cb4efe2906ae568e04bc13bc27 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable But the lujvo definition doesn't have to be identical with the tanru co= unterpart. I think the most useful definition should be used as the lujvo d= efinition. My proposal:

citme'i: x1 is a little siste= r of/sororal to x2 [younger than x2] by bond/tie/standard/parent= (s) x3; [not necessarily biological].
tolcitme'i: x1 is a big sister of/sororal to x2 [older than = x2] by bond/tie/standard/parent(s) x3; [not necessarily biologic= al].

In this way you could make distinctions with tanru like:

ri cu=C2=A0 citrai/citno/-/tolcitno/tolcitrai=C2=A0 citme'i/tolcitm= e'i/mensi/bruna/citybu'a/tolcitybu'a=C2=A0 mi

30 differe= nt kind of brothers and sisters including the elliptical/unspecified altern= atives.

mu'omi'e jongausib

Den 25 mar= s 2012 17:43 skrev gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>:
I wonder how Asian languages work then


On Sun= day, March 25, 2012 6:18:28 PM UTC+4, stevo wrote:
An older/younger sibling is older/younger relative to the person whose sibl= ing they are. E.g., My younger brother is younger than *I* am.=C2=A0
I&= #39;ve had a problem all my life with describing my brother who is a year y= ounger than I am. I've called him my older brother, because he's th= e older of my two brothers, but he's still younger than I am. OTOH, cal= ling him my older brother implies that he is older than I am. (Now I just d= on't talk about him.)=C2=A0
So the seltau {citmau} may not be the best word to use for the meaning= you want.=C2=A0
stevo

O= n Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 9:49 AM, gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com= > wrote:
So {citmau mensi} ?
Several languages in= Tatoeba look like they have separate words for older and younger sister.


On Sunday, March 25, 2012 5:17:29 PM UTC+4, stevo wrote:Why do you need lujvo for such words? I s= uggest trying it with tanru first, then if the need (or desire) is great en= ough, create a lujvo.=C2=A0

stevo

On Sun, Mar 25, 2012= at 3:53 AM, gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wro= te:
In some languages there are specific words f= or younger sister, older sister.
This is the problem I faced in Tatoeba= when translating some sentences.

I believe we need lujvo for such words.
{citm= au} or {citno} {mensi} are ambiguous.

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