Received: from mail-ob0-f189.google.com ([209.85.214.189]:34609) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SCxoe-0001yS-FH; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 11:41:53 -0700 Received: by obbup19 with SMTP id up19sf1142389obb.16 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 11:41:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=XFhlYJAUvOK7qtEs/9KuzfKfy3sgD70aZjFWWnbgHuE=; b=sTWPhHT3eAvBfJj1a+1RPjLHCGZEejzL2VxpYOGDLdLdn14A9na7o9P2ekvjwkBQCj WLFuRECJ33Isq1O7c78HJeiwyCYJFP8WAipkWfRg56YbtzmjuA+nfsSPY8l56DlrC6ln BggsCa13HI7XOOPsKnQUh7eDKMbFpJKfCWT7o= Received: by 10.52.19.43 with SMTP id b11mr3298106vde.4.1332960079643; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 11:41:19 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.66.3 with SMTP id l3ls279715vci.9.gmail; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 11:41:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.92.169 with SMTP id cn9mr1565790vdb.14.1332960078110; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 11:41:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 11:41:17 -0700 (PDT) From: ianek To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Message-ID: <15600620.22.1332960077652.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbtg38> In-Reply-To: References: <18866661.1100.1332948694954.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbmf37> Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: One Ring inscription translation. MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: janek37@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of janek37@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender) smtp.mail=janek37@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_21_17805320.1332960077650" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_21_17805320.1332960077650 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminine_rhyme "A feminine rhyme is a rhyme that matches two or more syllables, usually at= =20 the end of respective lines, in which the final syllable or syllables are= =20 unstressed." "Feminine rhyme is relatively rare in English poetry and usually appears as= =20 a special effect." - that may be why you're not familiar with it. In Polish= =20 poetry (the one I've grown up with) it's much more common than masculine,= =20 due to penultimate stress in most words, like in Lojban. mu'o mi'e ianek On Wednesday, March 28, 2012 8:19:36 PM UTC+2, aionys wrote: > > What the hell is a "feminine" rhyme? > > On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 9:31 AM, ianek wrote: > >> I wouldn't say that {ri} rhymes with {xekri}, bacause {xekri} implies a= =20 >> feminine rhyme and {facki ri}, {klami'e ri} both force a masculine rhyme= . >> And also, I doubt that {ri} may refer to more objects than the last=20 >> sumti. So {ro ri} in the first line would be "all of the one ring". >> Yes, translating pronouns to Lojban is hard. >> >> mu'o mi'e ianek >> >> >> On Wednesday, March 28, 2012 4:08:25 PM UTC+2, fraik. wrote: >>> >>> Hi everyone! I'm rather the nintadni, and I was attempting to translate= =20 >>> a few random snippets of text into lojban for practice. I was translati= ng=20 >>> the One Ring inscription, and this is what I came up with. >>> >>> (the One Ring inscription in Black Speech) >>> >>> Ash nazg durbatul=FBk, [ash]: one [nazg]: finger ring= =20 >>> [durb-] constrain; force; dominate [-at] participle [ul] them [ul=FBk]= =20 >>> completive form of 'them' >>> ash nazg gimbatul, [gimb-]: seek out; discover >>> ash nazg thrakatul=FBk [thrak-]: bring by force; drag;= to=20 >>> compel (something or someone) to go >>> agh burzum-ishi krimpatul. [agh]: and [burzum]: darkness=20 >>> [ishi]: in; inside [krimp-]: bind; tie >>> >>> Translated: >>> pa lo degja'i ku minde ro ri >>> .i pa lo degja'i ku facki ri >>> .i pa lo degja'i ku klami'e ri >>> .i ri jongau ra ne'i lo xekri >>> >>> As I hope you're able to tell, I tried to keep the metre of the=20 >>> original. The main questions I had when translating: >>> - {manku} doesn't rhyme with "ri", so I used {xekri}. Does {lo xekri}= =20 >>> mean "the blackness"? Is there a word with similar meaning to {manku} t= hat=20 >>> I could use and still have the line rhyme? >>> - I couldn't find a gismu for "retrive", in line 3. Would {bevri} have= =20 >>> worked there? Or is it fine the way I did it? >>> >>> Any relevant advice or corrections would be much appreciated. >> >> > > --=20 > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lo= jban-beginners/-/YqHqs6nVrYMJ. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. ------=_Part_21_17805320.1332960077650 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminine_rhyme
"A feminine rhyme is a rhym= e that matches two or more syllables, usually at the end of respective line= s, in which the final syllable or syllables are unstressed."
"Fem= inine rhyme is relatively rare in English poetry and usually appears as a s= pecial effect." - that may be why you're not familiar with it. In Polish po= etry (the one I've grown up with) it's much more common than masculine, due= to penultimate stress in most words, like in Lojban.

<= div>mu'o mi'e ianek

On Wednesday, March 28, 2012 8:19:36 PM UTC+2, a= ionys wrote:
What the hell is a= "feminine" rhyme?

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 a= t 9:31 AM, ianek wrote:
I wouldn't say that {ri} rhymes with {xekri}, bacause {xekri} implies a fem= inine rhyme and {facki ri}, {klami'e ri} both force a masculine rhyme.
= And also, I doubt that {ri} may refer to more objects than the last sumti. = So {ro ri} in the first line would be "all of the one ring".
Yes, translating pronouns to Lojban is hard.

= mu'o mi'e ianek


On Wednesday, March 28, 2012 4:08:25 PM UTC+2, = fraik. wrote:
Hi everyone! I'm rather the nintadni, and I was attempting to translate a f= ew random snippets of text into lojban for practice. I was translating the = One Ring inscription, and this is what I came up with.

(the One Ring= inscription in Black Speech)

Ash nazg durbatul=FBk,        &= nbsp;         [ash]: one [nazg]: fi= nger ring [durb-] constrain; force; dominate [-at] participle [ul] them [ul= =FBk] completive form of 'them'
ash nazg gimbatul,   &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;    [gimb-]: seek out; discover
ash nazg thrakatul=FBk         = ;         [thrak-]: bring by force;= drag; to compel (something or someone) to go
agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.=            [agh]: and [burzum]= : darkness [ishi]: in; inside [krimp-]: bind;  tie

Translated:
pa lo degja'i ku minde ro ri
.i pa lo degja'i ku fack= i ri
.i pa lo degja'i ku klami'e ri
.i ri jongau ra ne'i lo xekri
=
As I hope you're able to tell, I tried to keep the metre of the origina= l. The main questions I had when translating:
- {manku} doesn't rhyme with "ri", so I used {xekri}. Does {lo xekri} mean = "the blackness"? Is there a word with similar meaning to {manku} that I cou= ld use and still have the line rhyme?
- I couldn't find a gismu for "ret= rive", in line 3. Would {bevri} have worked there? Or is it fine the way I = did it?

Any relevant advice or corrections would be much appreciated.


--
mu'o mi'e .a= ionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu = do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/l= ojban-beginners/-/YqHqs6nVrYMJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
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