Received: from mail-ee0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]:61856) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SRxGf-0005hx-3g; Tue, 08 May 2012 20:08:51 -0700 Received: by eeke50 with SMTP id e50sf4746755eek.16 for ; Tue, 08 May 2012 20:08:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=oApFq7hyA2mlsJhmXpgO74pA38euGXDOgCn7tQPWViA=; b=UY9RlbyoCvriSqnmmqO4scID67tlvRKju98xtPSovCobpj9qF7doEUv3dvgi13sFpI 9LmT6623OKXIRPoo5jZFj8AyGZ+GEqYu98UEBw9AbuulRgBhD3y5v5HeXOe2spxikJ4u daV5hMsVWJaUFHUVCGJ35dLW64+/iYiYu20EA= Received: by 10.204.155.155 with SMTP id s27mr306503bkw.20.1336532917160; Tue, 08 May 2012 20:08:37 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.130.152 with SMTP id t24ls3760962bks.1.gmail; Tue, 08 May 2012 20:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.141.4 with SMTP id k4mr2536024bku.6.1336532915808; Tue, 08 May 2012 20:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.141.4 with SMTP id k4mr2536023bku.6.1336532915786; Tue, 08 May 2012 20:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f51.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f51.google.com [209.85.215.51]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ig3si1474962bkc.3.2012.05.08.20.08.35 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 08 May 2012 20:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.51 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.51; Received: by lagw12 with SMTP id w12so4609573lag.24 for ; Tue, 08 May 2012 20:08:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.103.199 with SMTP id fy7mr19699175lab.48.1336532915318; Tue, 08 May 2012 20:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.22.68 with HTTP; Tue, 8 May 2012 20:08:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201205080025.44688.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 21:08:35 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Reuse request From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.51 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04071487a5f0f504bf91d159 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --f46d04071487a5f0f504bf91d159 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Jorge Llamb=EDas wro= te: > On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 9:12 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Jorge Llamb=EDas > wrote: > >> > >> 32/33/34: I think "norbra" is better than "na'obra", and I would also > >> prefer "brana'o" to "na'obra". > > > > Do you have any particular reason for this, or is it just a personal > > preference? Also, would you prefer "norbra" over "brana'o" or vice-vers= a? > > In order of preference: no'e barda > norbra > brana'o > > "brana'o" is from "cnano lo ka barda", "na'obra" is not so clear. > I think I'll go with with no'e barda, then. Thank you. > >> 43: "sepli" should be "sepsi'u", and "kansa" is about doing something > >> together, not really about location. I suggest "jonsi'u" or > >> "tolsepsi'u" instead. > > > > Okay, the sepsi'u thing I get, but lo te kansa is an event /or/ state. > > Yes, but the hands that are raised together are kansi'u as much as > those that are touching one other together. > > >I > > agree that "jonsi'u" is a better choice here, > > "lamsi'u" works too. > Well, yes, but it doesn't work in panel #44, or (at least arguably) in #45, as a replacement for kansa. >but I'd prefer to use gismu as > > I said above, I can't use any word involving jorne in the later panels, > and > > the repitition of the word in multiple examples is kind of the point of > > those panels. > > > > Do you have a suggestion I can use in place of sepli/kansa I can use in > all > > those panels? > > sepsi'u/tolsepsi'u? > Um, do you have a better suggestion? Do we really not have a gismu of any kind for to'e sepli? > >> 63: To me "ko'a pafspe ko'e" means "ko'a speni lo patfu be ko'e", and > >> "ko'a be'aspe ko'e" is "ko'a speni lo bersa be ko'e". > > > > So, "spepa'u" and "spebe'a"? > > spepa'u is father-in-law, spebe'a is stepson. > > son-in-law would usually be tixspe ("nakni pazyspe", "male > offspring-spouse") would be a more exact translation, which is not > necessarily better. > You know, I really, really dislike the use of a word meaning female to describe a male (and vice-versa), and not because it's prejudicial to homosexual relationships- although that is an excellent additional reason, imo. At this point, "pazyspe" seems like the best option to me. I don't honestly care about the lack of gender specification- we already know he's a guy. Plus, it kind of goes with my reasoning behind calling a female officer of the law a policeman. That and the fact that while English (amd apparently, Ceqli) aren't very gender-neutral, Lojban /is/. It might even be malropno to be gender specific.... So, if {ko'a tixspe ko'e} is {ko'a speni lo tixnu be ko'e}, what is {ko'a bersa ko'e ki'u lodu'u speni lo ri panzi}? Also, why is it that all the familial gismu have a "by bond x3" except bersa and tixnu? I hate it when I encounter exceptions like that. I think from this point, I'm going to start /pretending/ they do have the "by bond" x3. So, what's the lujvo for {ko'a bersa ko'e lo nunspe}? > mu'o mi'e xorxes > Since you didn't reply to the others: doi rodo Are you satisfied with barda in #31, given my reasoning behind using it, or would you rather I changed it to "bramau" as .xorxes. suggests= ? doi.xorxes. So, to make sure, spepa'u and spemamta are the correct words? Regarding #67-#70: Can I get the math problems done using mekso? From anyone? IIRC, someone did a proposal on how to fix the mekso (.xorxes.?) so it wasn't quite so incomprehensible, maybe use that instead? Failing that, I'll jjust de-weirdify what's on there now. Regarding #72: I'm not missing anything, right? --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. --f46d04071487a5f0f504bf91d159 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Jorge Llamb=EDas= <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 9:12 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 32/33/34: I think "norbra" is be= tter than "na'obra", and I would also
>> prefer "brana'o" to "na'obra".
>
> Do you have any particular reason for this, or is it just a personal > preference? Also, would you prefer "norbra" over "brana= 'o" or vice-versa?

In order of preference: no'e barda > norbra > brana'o
"brana'o" is from "cnano lo ka barda", "na'= ;obra" is not so clear.

I think I'll go w= ith with no'e barda, then. Thank you.
=A0
>> 43: "sepli" should be "sepsi'u", and "= ;kansa" is about doing something
>> together, not really about location. I suggest "jonsi'u&q= uot; or
>> "tolsepsi'u" instead.
>
> Okay, the sepsi'u thing I get, but lo te kansa is an event /or/ st= ate.

Yes, but the hands that are raised together are kansi'u as much a= s
those that are touching one other together.

>I
> agree that "jonsi'u" is a better choice here,

"lamsi'u" works too.

Well, yes= , but it doesn't work in panel=A0 #44, or (at least arguably) in #45, a= s a replacement for kansa.

>but I'd prefer to use gismu as
> I said above, I can't use any word involving jorne in the later pa= nels, and
> the repitition of the word in multiple examples is kind of the point o= f
> those panels.
>
> Do you have a suggestion I can use in place of sepli/kansa I can use i= n all
> those panels?

sepsi'u/tolsepsi'u?

Um, do you have = a better suggestion?

Do we really not have a gismu of any kind for t= o'e sepli?
=A0
>> 63: To me "ko'a pafspe ko'e" means "ko'= a speni lo patfu be ko'e", and
>> "ko'a be'aspe ko'e" is "ko'a speni = lo bersa be ko'e".
>
> So, "spepa'u" and "spebe'a"?

spepa'u is father-in-law, spebe'a is stepson.

son-in-law would usually be tixspe ("nakni pazyspe", "male offspring-spouse") would be a more exact translation, which is not
necessarily better.

You know, I really, really dis= like the use of a word meaning female to describe a male (and vice-versa), = and not because it's prejudicial to homosexual relationships- although = that is an excellent additional reason, imo.

At this point, "pazyspe" seems like the best option to me. I = don't honestly care about the lack of gender specification- we already = know he's a guy. Plus, it kind of goes with my reasoning behind calling= a female officer of the law a policeman. That and the fact that while Engl= ish (amd apparently, Ceqli) aren't very gender-neutral, Lojban /is/. It= might even be malropno to be gender specific....

So, if {ko'a tixspe ko'e} is {ko'a speni lo tixnu be ko'= ;e}, what is {ko'a bersa ko'e ki'u lodu'u speni lo ri panzi= }?

Also, why is it that all the familial gismu have a "by bond = x3" except bersa and tixnu? I hate it when I encounter exceptions like= that.

I think from this point, I'm going to start /pretending/ they do ha= ve the "by bond" x3. So, what's the lujvo for {ko'a bersa= ko'e lo nunspe}?
=A0
mu'o mi'e xorxes

Since y= ou didn't reply to the others:

doi rodo Are you satisfied with b= arda in #31, given my reasoning behind using it, or would you rather I chan= ged it to "bramau" as .xorxes. suggests?

doi.xorxes. So, to make sure, spepa'u and spemamta are the correct = words?

Regarding #67-#70: Can I get the math problems done using mek= so? From anyone? IIRC, someone did a proposal on how to fix the mekso (.xor= xes.?) so it wasn't quite so incomprehensible, maybe use that instead? = Failing that, I'll jjust de-weirdify what's on there now.

Regarding #72: I'm not missing anything, right?
--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno = be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke= , I am your father. :D )

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
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