Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]:35962)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncCMLaiI6rCBCwoKv9BBoEKGs8Rw@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1SSDHb-0006dI-NI; Wed, 09 May 2012 13:14:49 -0700
Received: by yhq56 with SMTP id 56sf932556yhq.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Wed, 09 May 2012 13:14:41 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject
         :mime-version:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results
         :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id
         :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe
         :list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=SD65EMV5+7BuyLX5v1kxia89Gd+VLDDJXEd0ptaBNLU=;
        b=w801M9LuiOleaIdJLtp7iGOcJVPKJzr21oh4gfoTYK6ezq2GhmTShggsiAjjUW6Dqk
         P/3BpHLf5wIZJYC/l4BTi5HPvtfWL3iBgNQwIBG3KO1PNUrW7o7gyVQj5vkkd4YxRAye
         +6N9qTFpD9iGruSWz7FeMTWfWOpR5Aedrsa68=
Received: by 10.236.114.136 with SMTP id c8mr181732yhh.17.1336594480961;
        Wed, 09 May 2012 13:14:40 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.236.103.202 with SMTP id f50ls9831628yhg.4.gmail; Wed, 09 May
 2012 13:14:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.236.72.163 with SMTP id t23mr178579yhd.18.1336594480151;
        Wed, 09 May 2012 13:14:40 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 13:14:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: ianek <janek37@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Message-ID: <33420536.837.1336594478924.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynlx17>
In-Reply-To: <CAKOEKkTS9PinuhG2CqFggqiBR4fT6z3MYGobaYafQ=sdyhukvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMKwHj2prU_2fn6qeh-tioG3W=y+7hpMjPXAOSTEvkSse5gp6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMKwHj1=oL7AE9Kq-cY0zk1zDdwzYtDCbDVKo8zaVbqvt7nzRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHiXx=PsR8HCUKvp+LVwgAJJ_QJ=ca8yt+MQrswkBRwJoGFtAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <201205080025.44688.phma@phma.optus.nu>
 <CAMKwHj3Q14xUULjZvbe3Pqa7Vvv6d6jOft16S_N_rNP00dpg7g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMKwHj2w7XQnr0RjmXBWtX0S4NBP5VTmQ39Wd90WEFEiMiHN=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO7tK2fSdtxOkEkajA2TK5qEdA=pz3-THjCLcrn8t2KrWNt9AQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMKwHj0BjF1nZ1Hp+43ef3V+n4KT9ErpE-Q6=cRF66Ft=vPj1A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO7tK2eeiLsOmg0ow9XTw65Ja=y4D7YMHk2DZSH7igN2scqHkQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMKwHj3Sm_209N95SOxUyJ_5SvES7JX+znZmA4bmbBfKj2QdGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO7tK2fQ=w6C8S_5jwUZPvnmMo7DpTAcgb76QwC4k4-3gFTMdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <12872840.1048.1336566301897.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynjb15>
 <3f2be27f-7c0e-459f-9b8a-f0a3b401cfb1@l15g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>
 <CAMKwHj1+585aqNs0b2bcLd6gO6hArkS5efKdoi5Vppba1aAJGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKOEKkRkxV3-wLnWndNRFH2y3zGn8yLKUgxNsp3=Nu54G5HkQg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMKwHj3bbcptyHVQAmDtS9qi94aK7rRnjtM9X_8uHSTOEN0DBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKOEKkTS9PinuhG2CqFggqiBR4fT6z3MYGobaYafQ=sdyhukvg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Reuse request
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Original-Sender: janek37@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of
 janek37@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=janek37@gmail.com; dkim=pass
 header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:googlegroups-manage+300742228892+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
	boundary="----=_Part_836_16728294.1336594478923"
X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++)
X-Spam_score: 2.8
X-Spam_score_int: 28
X-Spam_bar: ++
X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has
 identified this incoming email as possible spam.  The original message
 has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label
 similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
 the administrator of that system for details.
 
 Content preview:  On Wednesday, May 9, 2012 8:57:51 PM UTC+2, lincro wrote:
   > > > > On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
    wrote: > >> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com
    >> > wrote: >> >>> . >>> >> >> If you don't believe that you can own a pet,
    that's okay, that just >>> means "la clalis ponse lo mlatu na'e bo la aionys"
    :-) >>> (in any case, you're okay here, because "se dalpe'o" works, too.
   >>> >>> --gejyspa >>> >> >> I think the relationship between a pet and it's
    caretaker is a unique >> bond that has similarities to the relationship between
    a person and his >> friends, and boss and her subordinates, and a person
   and his property, but >> is not truly the same as any of these. But that's
    not really important, as >> it's a philosophical opinion and we're discussing
    grammar. >> >> > I agree. You're the one that said you didn't want to use
    "ponse" > because of your philosophy. I merely point out that the te ponse
    enables > you to limit the universe of who recognizes this ownership. In
   the eyes of > the majority of cultures and governments, you can ponse lo dalpe'o.
    In > some cultures, you can ponse lo gunka. In some, you can ponse lo fetspe,
    > and in some, you can ponse lo panzi. But like I said, you can use "se >
    dalpe'o", be uncontroversial and true to your philosophy. > [...] 
 
 Content analysis details:   (2.8 points, 5.0 required)
 
  pts rule name              description
 ---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
  0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM          Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider
                             (janek37[at]gmail.com)
 -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW      RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, low
                             trust
                             [209.85.213.61 listed in list.dnswl.org]
  0.0 DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED   No valid author signature, adsp_override is
                             CUSTOM_MED
 -0.0 SPF_PASS               SPF: sender matches SPF record
  0.0 FUZZY_CPILL            BODY: Attempt to obfuscate words in spam
  0.0 HTML_MESSAGE           BODY: HTML included in message
  0.1 DKIM_SIGNED            Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid
 -0.1 DKIM_VALID             Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature
  1.3 DRUGS_ERECTILE_OBFU    Obfuscated reference to an erectile drug
  2.2 DRUGS_ERECTILE         Refers to an erectile drug

------=_Part_836_16728294.1336594478923
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1



On Wednesday, May 9, 2012 8:57:51 PM UTC+2, lincro wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>    If you don't believe that you can own a pet, that's okay, that just 
>>> means "la clalis ponse lo mlatu na'e bo la aionys"  :-)
>>>    (in any case, you're okay here, because "se dalpe'o" works, too.
>>>
>>>          --gejyspa
>>>
>>
>> I think the relationship between a pet and it's caretaker is a unique 
>> bond that has similarities to the relationship between a person and his 
>> friends, and boss and her subordinates, and a person and his property, but 
>> is not truly the same as any of these. But that's not really important, as 
>> it's a philosophical opinion and we're discussing grammar. 
>>
>>
>   I agree.  You're the one that said you didn't want to use "ponse" 
> because of your philosophy.  I merely point out that the te ponse enables 
> you to limit the universe of who recognizes this ownership.  In the eyes of 
> the  majority of cultures and governments, you can ponse lo dalpe'o.  In 
> some cultures, you can ponse lo gunka.  In some, you can ponse lo fetspe, 
> and in some, you can ponse lo panzi.  But like I said, you can use "se 
> dalpe'o", be uncontroversial and true to your philosophy.  
>

Of those things, the least controversial should be {mi ponse lo xance}, 
because I certainly am the owner of my hand, even if I can't point to an 
appropriate law/custom. Although, {mi ponse lo xance} sounds pretty 
gruesome to me.

mu'o mi'e ianek

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/pQ7w3s4Lg5oJ.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.


------=_Part_836_16728294.1336594478923
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<br><br>On Wednesday, May 9, 2012 8:57:51 PM UTC+2, lincro wrote:<blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: =
1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote">On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Jonathan Jones <span dir=3D"lt=
r">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">eyeonus@gmail=
.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Michael Tur=
niansky <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mturniansky@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">mturniansky@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr">.</div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px sol=
id rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div></div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp;If you don't believe that you=
 can own a pet, that's okay, that just means "la clalis ponse lo mlatu na'e=
 bo la aionys" &nbsp;:-)</div>
<div>&nbsp; &nbsp;(in any case, you're okay here, because "se dalpe'o" work=
s, too.</div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;--gejysp=
a</div></div></blockquote></div><div><br>

I think the relationship between a pet and it's caretaker is a unique=20
bond that has similarities to the relationship between a person and his=20
friends, and boss and her subordinates, and a person and his property,=20
but is not truly the same as any of these. But that's not really=20
important, as it's a philosophical opinion and we're discussing grammar. <b=
r></div></div><div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>&n=
bsp; I agree. &nbsp;You're the one that said you didn't want to use "ponse"=
 because of your philosophy. &nbsp;I merely point out that the te ponse ena=
bles you to limit the universe of who recognizes this ownership. &nbsp;In t=
he eyes of the &nbsp;majority of cultures and governments, you can ponse lo=
 dalpe'o. &nbsp;In some cultures, you can ponse lo gunka. &nbsp;In some, yo=
u can ponse lo fetspe, and in some, you can ponse lo panzi. &nbsp;But like =
I said, you can use "se dalpe'o", be uncontroversial and true to your philo=
sophy. &nbsp;</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Of those th=
ings, the least controversial should be {mi ponse lo xance}, because I cert=
ainly am the owner of my hand, even if I can't point to an appropriate law/=
custom. Although, {mi ponse lo xance} sounds pretty gruesome to me.</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>mu'o mi'e ianek</div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.<br />
To view this discussion on the web visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.c=
om/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/pQ7w3s4Lg5oJ">https://groups.google.com/d/msg/l=
ojban-beginners/-/pQ7w3s4Lg5oJ</a>.<br />=20
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />



------=_Part_836_16728294.1336594478923--