Received: from mail-fa0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]:58644)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncCMHEmaCOBhDIsa39BBoEjtkh7g@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1SSMNc-0002Bw-BW; Wed, 09 May 2012 22:57:45 -0700
Received: by faaa5 with SMTP id a5sf912797faa.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Wed, 09 May 2012 22:57:28 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
         :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=jdczYHCgSj26Y5PXZf84K69un18zM5bZRQwQBF1Nr0M=;
        b=cKOxqN+usd3OW+Q7lJtZ64KmI5TbgO1G7STH4IBwUPxgtrudvr4jUwZ6uvRx76J+nI
         urRhBTacfkmm3DVSmIhzNaLsuetK03lfwD31R08VRRcAMWbamgMuPchpLm7UkTpg6OgQ
         4wQ9H8uPKM6C7zM95aC5IjZTSiMezV2VMhlFc=
Received: by 10.204.153.196 with SMTP id l4mr125522bkw.17.1336629448110;
        Wed, 09 May 2012 22:57:28 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.204.5.133 with SMTP id 5ls4571016bkv.0.gmail; Wed, 09 May 2012
 22:57:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.204.152.217 with SMTP id h25mr355116bkw.3.1336629447531;
        Wed, 09 May 2012 22:57:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.204.152.217 with SMTP id h25mr355115bkw.3.1336629447504;
        Wed, 09 May 2012 22:57:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f45.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f45.google.com [209.85.215.45])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p5si5847777bks.1.2012.05.09.22.57.27
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Wed, 09 May 2012 22:57:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.45 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.45;
Received: by lahc1 with SMTP id c1so670172lah.4
        for <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>; Wed, 09 May 2012 22:57:27 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.152.148.234 with SMTP id tv10mr2774539lab.41.1336629447084;
 Wed, 09 May 2012 22:57:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.152.22.68 with HTTP; Wed, 9 May 2012 22:57:26 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CAHiXx=OFWrSjmEhYS3cQ56OKsZadgiM8N+WQ+GdJH90MKb6aqA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMKwHj2prU_2fn6qeh-tioG3W=y+7hpMjPXAOSTEvkSse5gp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj1=oL7AE9Kq-cY0zk1zDdwzYtDCbDVKo8zaVbqvt7nzRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHiXx=PsR8HCUKvp+LVwgAJJ_QJ=ca8yt+MQrswkBRwJoGFtAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<201205080025.44688.phma@phma.optus.nu>
	<CAMKwHj3Q14xUULjZvbe3Pqa7Vvv6d6jOft16S_N_rNP00dpg7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj2w7XQnr0RjmXBWtX0S4NBP5VTmQ39Wd90WEFEiMiHN=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2fSdtxOkEkajA2TK5qEdA=pz3-THjCLcrn8t2KrWNt9AQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj0BjF1nZ1Hp+43ef3V+n4KT9ErpE-Q6=cRF66Ft=vPj1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2eeiLsOmg0ow9XTw65Ja=y4D7YMHk2DZSH7igN2scqHkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj3Sm_209N95SOxUyJ_5SvES7JX+znZmA4bmbBfKj2QdGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2fQ=w6C8S_5jwUZPvnmMo7DpTAcgb76QwC4k4-3gFTMdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<12872840.1048.1336566301897.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynjb15>
	<CAMKwHj2jN_LCHZVHeYnbqQc6SQ+xCbdGiKxtCxy_0JaL7PNfVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHiXx=OFWrSjmEhYS3cQ56OKsZadgiM8N+WQ+GdJH90MKb6aqA@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 23:57:26 -0600
Message-ID: <CAMKwHj0SXy-LDYFBO=Vj-Qj=g4HPLZ+LhrVBjApb-SYGWNusjw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Reuse request
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.45 as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:googlegroups-manage+300742228892+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f23450963c93a04bfa84baa
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Spam_score: 0.0
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /

--e89a8f23450963c93a04bfa84baa
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 11:45 PM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:

> On the other hand, nobody can stop you from using the form of Lojban you
> want. It may not be understood readily if you do.
> You take the risk, you accept the consequences.
> (Sadly, the beginners list is not the place for this sort of comment, but
> there it is.)
>
> stevo
>

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Lojban is a
proscribed language, so there's /only/ one form. If you're not using that
form, you're not using Lojban.


> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 6:25 AM, ianek <janek37@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So let's change it! I mean, we should gather complaints like that and
>>> make new versions of Lojban from time to time (once a couple of years?).
>>>
>>> If there are annoying things in Lojban and we know how to fix them, then
>>> we should stop complaining and do something! It's our language, there's
>>> nobody to stop us!
>>>
>>> I have similar thoughts about jbovlaste, but I'll better start another
>>> thread for that.
>>>
>>> mu'o mi'e ianek
>>>
>>
>> Well, as far as gismu are concerned, we're not currently allowed to make
>> any changes. By the statutes of our community, the "baseline" of the
>> language is not allowed to change until the entirety has been documented.
>> This only means gismu and cmavo, btw. We're allowed to make and edit as
>> many lujvo, fu'ivla, and cmevla as we want.
>>
>> In other words, when the goal as stated on this page<http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Community+Work>has been met, then we can start actually making improvements to the base
>> language, such as regulating the place structures to remove exceptions.
>> Until then, however, when it comes to the baseline, all we can do is talk,
>> moan, discuss, and complain.
>>
>> --
>> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>>
>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>>
>>  --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>>
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>



-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.


--e89a8f23450963c93a04bfa84baa
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 11:45 PM, MorphemeAddict =
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lytlesw@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank=
">lytlesw@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
>
On the other hand, nobody can stop you from using the form of Lojban you wa=
nt. It may not be understood readily if you do.=A0<div>You take the risk, y=
ou accept the consequences.=A0</div><div>(Sadly, the beginners list is not =
the place for this sort of comment, but there it is.)</div>


<div><br></div><div>stevo<br></div></blockquote><div><br>I&#39;m sorry, but=
 I&#39;m going to have to disagree with you there. Lojban is a proscribed l=
anguage, so there&#39;s /only/ one form. If you&#39;re not using that form,=
 you&#39;re not using Lojban.<br>
=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8e=
x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div class=3D"h5">On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Jo=
nathan Jones <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">eyeonus@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

</div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 6:25 AM, ianek <span=
 dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:janek37@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jan=
ek37@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">



<div></div><div>So let&#39;s change it! I mean, we should gather complaints=
 like that and make new versions of Lojban from time to time (once a couple=
 of years?).</div><div><br></div><div>If there are annoying things in Lojba=
n and we know how to fix them, then we should stop complaining and do somet=
hing! It&#39;s our language, there&#39;s nobody to stop us!</div>



<div><br></div><div>I have similar thoughts about jbovlaste, but I&#39;ll b=
etter start another thread for that.</div><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#=
39;e ianek</div></blockquote></div><div><br>Well, as far as gismu are conce=
rned, we&#39;re not currently allowed to make any changes. By the statutes =
of our community, the &quot;baseline&quot; of the language is not allowed t=
o change until the entirety has been documented. This only means gismu and =
cmavo, btw. We&#39;re allowed to make and edit as many lujvo, fu&#39;ivla, =
and cmevla as we want.<br>



<br>In other words, when the goal as stated on=A0<a href=3D"http://www.lojb=
an.org/tiki/BPFK+Community+Work" target=3D"_blank">this page</a> has been m=
et, then we can start actually making improvements to the base language, su=
ch as regulating the place structures to remove exceptions. Until then, how=
ever, when it comes to the baseline, all we can do is talk, moan, discuss, =
and complain.<br>



</div></div><div><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai=
 ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to=
 the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<br><br>

<p></p></div></div></div><div class=3D"im"><div>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Lojban Beginners&quot; group.<br></div></div><div class=3D"im"><div><d=
iv>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners@goo=
glegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-begi=
nners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban-beginners+un=
subscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>

For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>


</div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div><div class=3D"im HOEnZb">

<p></p>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Lojban Beginners&quot; group.<br></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div clas=
s=3D"h5">
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners@goo=
glegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-begi=
nners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban-beginners+un=
subscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>

For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>


</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi=
&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l=
uk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. =
:D )<br>
<br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />



--e89a8f23450963c93a04bfa84baa--