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Subject: RE: [lojban-beginners] Re: 'tesete' and cmavo cluster rules
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Vowels are such by convention, not pronunciation: to say that a letter is a=
 vowel because it is a 'vowel sound' causes all sorts of exponentially and =
rapidly increasing problems. Is that to say U can't possibly be a vowel in =
English either, because it's pronounced as W in words such as 'quick'?
=20

-----Original Message-----
From: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com [mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegrou=
ps.com]On Behalf Of Miles Forster
Sent: 10 May 2012 11:04
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: 'tesete' and cmavo cluster rules


.y bu is not "u". .u bu is. And the u in ui is not pronounced [u] but [w] w=
hich *is* a consonant. Some here seem to lack reading comprehension. It's a=
nnoying to argue with people who won't listen to what the other person is s=
aying.
Whether or not something is a vowel depends on the way it's pronounced, not=
 the way it's written.

mu'o

Am 10.05.2012 02:12, schrieb Michael Turniansky:=20

  It is, and it always does require a pause in front of it.  Miles is wrong=
.=20
        --gejyspa


On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 8:10 PM, =C1lvaro Vallejo < avallejor@gmail.com> wro=
te:


.uesai=20


- "The initial period can never be omitted before vowels (if they are phone=
tically vowels. {ui} =3D [wi], so no dot is necessary). "

- "ui does not begin in a vowel. Therefore, no denpa bu is needed."


Well... I am really shocked! How is it that "u" is not a vowel? It IS a vow=
el or I should start learning again Lojban from zero: it's name is indeed y=
bu, isn't it?
(Chapter 1 of Lojban for beginners, Chapter 2 of CLL)...=20

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--=20

.i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna=20

.i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla



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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff text=3D#000000>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D994130910-10052012><FONT color=3D#800080=20
face=3D"Lucida Sans">Vowels are such by convention, not pronunciation: to s=
ay that=20
a letter is a vowel because it&nbsp;is a 'vowel sound' causes all sorts of=
=20
exponentially and rapidly increasing problems. Is that to say U can't possi=
bly=20
be a vowel in English either, because it's pronounced as W in words such as=
=20
'quick'?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D994130910-10052012><FONT color=3D#800080=20
face=3D"Lucida Sans"></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr class=3DOutlookMessageHeader align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2=
=20
  face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
  lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com=20
  [mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Miles=20
  Forster<BR><B>Sent:</B> 10 May 2012 11:04<BR><B>To:</B>=20
  lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [lojban-beginner=
s]=20
  Re: 'tesete' and cmavo cluster rules<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>.y bu is not "u"=
. .u=20
  bu is. And the u in ui is not pronounced [u] but [w] which *is* a consona=
nt.=20
  Some here seem to lack reading comprehension. It's annoying to argue with=
=20
  people who won't listen to what the other person is saying.<BR>Whether or=
 not=20
  something is a vowel depends on the way it's pronounced, not the way it's=
=20
  written.<BR><BR>mu'o<BR><BR>Am 10.05.2012 02:12, schrieb Michael Turnians=
ky:=20
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  cite=3Dmid:CAKOEKkRvC+aWyYx=3DKjcPJOtGrqVLC4pRuTN-AcOKWVRKZ7tEiQ@mail.gma=
il.com=20
  type=3D"cite">
    <DIV dir=3Dltr>&nbsp; It is, and it always does require a pause in fron=
t of=20
    it. &nbsp;Miles is wrong.=20
    <DIV>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --gejyspa</DIV>
    <DIV><BR><BR>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 8:10 PM, =C1lvaro Valle=
jo=20
    <DEFANGHTML_SPAN dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A href=3D"mailto:avallejor@gmail.com"=
=20
    target=3D_blank=20
    defanghtml_moz-do-not-send=3D"true">avallejor@gmail.com</A>&gt;</DEFANG=
HTML_SPAN>=20
    wrote:<BR>
    <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
    defanghtml_style=3D"margin:0 0 0&#13;&#10;              .8ex;border-lef=
t:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">.uesai=20

      <DIV class=3Dim><BR><BR>- "The initial period can never be omitted be=
fore=20
      vowels (if they are <I>phonetically</I> vowels. {ui} =3D [wi], so no =
dot is=20
      necessary). "<BR></DIV>
      <DIV class=3Dim>- "ui does not begin in a vowel. Therefore, no denpa =
bu is=20
      needed."<BR><BR></DIV>Well... I am really shocked! How is it that "u"=
 is=20
      not a vowel? It IS a vowel or I should start learning again Lojban fr=
om=20
      zero: it's name is indeed ybu, isn't it?<BR>(Chapter 1 of Lojban for=
=20
      beginners, Chapter 2 of CLL)...=20
      <DIV class=3Dim><BR>-- <BR>You received this message because you are=
=20
      subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.<BR></DIV>To=
 view=20
      this discussion on the web visit <A=20
      href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/AINBgk5ryt=
8J"=20
      target=3D_blank=20
      defanghtml_moz-do-not-send=3D"true">https://groups.google.com/d/msg/l=
ojban-beginners/-/AINBgk5ryt8J</A>.=20

      <DIV class=3DHOEnZb>
      <DIV class=3Dh5><BR>To post to this group, send email to <A=20
      href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com" target=3D_blank=20
      defanghtml_moz-do-not-send=3D"true">lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com=
</A>.<BR>To=20
      unsubscribe from this group, send email to <A=20
      href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com"=20
      target=3D_blank=20
      defanghtml_moz-do-not-send=3D"true">lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@goog=
legroups.com</A>.<BR>For=20
      more options, visit this group at <A=20
      href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den" targ=
et=3D_blank=20
      defanghtml_moz-do-not-send=3D"true">http://groups.google.com/group/lo=
jban-beginners?hl=3Den</A>.<BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></D=
IV>--=20
    <BR>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=
=20
    Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.<BR>To post to this group, send email t=
o <A=20
    class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated=20
    href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com">lojban-beginners@goog=
legroups.com</A>.<BR>To=20
    unsubscribe from this group, send email to <A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbr=
eviated=20
    href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban-be=
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    href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den">http:/=
/groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</A>.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>=
<BR><PRE class=3Dmoz-signature defanghtml_cols=3D"72">--=20
.i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna=20
.i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla</PRE><BR><BR>
  <P><A=20
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