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From: Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] xu kau
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 11:37:20 -0400
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On Monday 04 June 2012 09:21:13 tengo wrote:
> coi
>
> I have read about {xu} and {kau}, and I find most usage of {xu kau}
> odd. As I understand {xu}, it puts the main bridi into question, not a
> sub-bridi. Consider the following example:
>
> do djuno lo du'u la .frank. cu bebna
> You know that Frank is foolish
>
> First I add {xu}:
>
> do djuno lo du'u xu la .frank. cu bebna
> Is it true that you know that Frank is foolish?
> Do you know that Frank is foolish?

No, it's "You know that is Frank foolish?". This doesn't sound like good 
English, but that's what it means. It could be interpreted as "You know 
whether Frank is foolish. Is he?".

> So, it's now a question. Then I add {kau}:
>
> do djuno lo du'u xu kau la .frank. cu bebna
> Whether you know that Frank is foolish.
>
> Which is what seems odd to me. The CLL has an example in chapter 11:
>
> 7.3)   mi djuno le jei la frank. cu bebna [kei]
>        I know the truth-value of Frank being a fool.
>
> And later in the text: "I know whether or not Frank is a fool", which
> seems to be the intended meaning of {mi djuno lo du'u xu kau
> la .frank. cu bebna}.
>
> So, is there a special rule for interpretation of {xu kau}? If yes,
> where is it defined? Is the {jei}-version still correct with current
> definitions of {jei} and {djuno}?

"jei broda" can be used as a shorter equivalent to "du'u xu kau broda". But 
like "xu" by itself, "xu kau" can be placed after any component of a sentence 
to indicate that it is the one in question:

mi djuno lo du'u la .frank. xu kau bebna
I know whether it is Frank that is a fool.
We all know that someone is a fool, but we don't all know who it is. I know 
whether it's Frank.

Pierre

-- 
gau do li'i co'e kei do

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