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Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: my first translation
From: ianek <janek37@gmail.com>
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The meaning of {broda je brode} is not well defined if some sumti are
plural. Your opinion is that "lo remei ku mlatu je gerku" means that
one thing is a dog and the other is a cat, but it doesn't follow from
any official text I know of. In an other interpretation it may mean
that both things are cats and dogs simultanouosly. Problems with your
interpretation may start eg. when there are more plural sumti in the
bridi, like {lo remei ku nelci je cinba lo cimei}.

mu'o mi'e ianek

On 27 Cze, 11:32, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm sorry, what?
>
> {je} means "and". {e} means "and". {ja} means "and/or". There's no opinio=
n
> involved.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 2:50 AM, ianek <jane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 27 Cze, 10:21, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Ross Ogilvie <r...@rossogilvie.id.a=
u
> > >wrote:
>
> > > > Excellent run through of the translation process.
>
> > > > One query though,
>
> > > > lo mivyskera'a je zbaskera'a po do
> > > > This section of the cll (http://dag.github.com/cll/14/12/) seems to
> > > > suggest that this would be a thing or things that are both
> > technologically
> > > > and biologically intrinsic to you. Perhaps {ja} would capture the
> > things
> > > > that are one or the other (or both).
>
> > > > ie lo X .e lo Y =3D lo X ja Y
>
> > > la X .e lo Y !=3D lo X ja Y, la X .e lo Y =3D lo X je Y
>
> > First, it should be noted that that's your opinion and isn't backed by
> > any official text (which aren't explicit in the matter of tanru
> > connectives).
> > Second, the "=3D" may suggest symmetrical equality, which is not true,
> > as "lo X je Y" may be one object and "lo X e lo Y" must be at least
> > two.
>
> > mu'o mi'e ianek
>
> > > But you are correct that it would have been better to use ja (and/or)
> > then
> > > je.
>
> > > > mu'o mi'e ros
>
> > > > On 24 June 2012 15:14, Devin Prater <r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> Oh, I am not discouraged. I just need to learn a bit more about th=
e
> > > >> language and how it works more, and practice thinking more logical=
ly,
> > > >> I'm thinking about the "ship" thing now, I can't believe I called =
a
> > > >> starship a boat. I think translating things like this is a sort of
> > > >> creativity, because breaking things down from English words to wha=
t
> > > >> they truly are takes much creativeness, there doesn't seem to be m=
any
> > > >> word-to-word translations from English to Lojban, well not many in
> > > >> this case anyways. Thanks for your help and guidance.
>
> > > >> On 6/23/12, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> > Certainly. I'll try to remember to do so.
>
> > > >> > to pu benji ti fo lo mi me la.android. fonxa toi
> > > >> > mu'o mi'e.aionys.
> > > >> > On Jun 23, 2012 10:27 PM, ".arpis." <rpglover64+jbo...@gmail.com=
>
> > > >> wrote:
>
> > > >> >> ki'e sai .aionys.
>
> > > >> >> I found that extremely informative and would appreciate any sim=
ilar
> > > >> >> description for future translations you do that you are willing=
 to
> > > >> >> provide.
> > > >> >> .i mi mutce se jungau gi'e ba da'i ckire tu'a lo simsa velski b=
e
> > lo nu
> > > >> >> ba xe fanva ku ku poi do nalpro fi lo nu sabji
>
> > > >> >> On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 11:34 PM, Jonathan Jones <
> > eyeo...@gmail.com>
> > > >> >> wrote:
> > > >> >> > That's actually the reason behind me going through my thought
> > > >> process,
> > > >> >> > rather than merely submitting my translation. This is not the
> > first
> > > >> >> > translation project I've attempted, nor likely the last, so I
> > have
> > > >> some
> > > >> >> > experience in hte hidden difficulties that lie within.
>
> > > >> >> > On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Devin Prater <
> > > >> r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com>
> > > >> >> > wrote:
>
> > > >> >> >> Wow. You've given me some insight on the translation process=
,
> > that I
> > > >> >> >> shouldn't translate just the words, but the true meaning, wh=
ich
> > is a
> > > >> >> >> little tricky sometimes, like with lower your shields. I thi=
nk I
> > > >> >> >> should learn more Lojban before tackling things like this, I
> > thought
> > > >> >> >> this would be quite simple.
>
> > > >> >> >> On 6/23/12, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> >> > I made a rather annoying mistake. I completely forgot to
> > separate
> > > >> >> >> > the
> > > >> >> >> > two
> > > >> >> >> > sentences. There needs to be an {.i} in there.
>
> > > >> >> >> > {mi'a selcme zo.borg. *.i* ko sisti lonu nensabji lo nenca=
lku
> > kei
> > > >> >> >> > gi'e
> > > >> >> >> > radydu'a lo do keslo'i}
>
> > > >> >> >> > --
> > > >> >> >> > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> > > >> >> >> > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi pat=
fu
> > do
> > > >> zo'o
> > > >> >> >> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
> > > >> >> >> > --
> > > >> >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to th=
e
> > Google
> > > >> >> >> > Groups
> > > >> >> >> > "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > > >> >> >> > To post to this group, send email to
> > > >> >> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> > > >> >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > >> >> >> > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > > >> >> >> > For more options, visit this group at
> > > >> >> >> >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
>
> > > >> >> >> --
> > > >> >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> > Google
> > > >> >> Groups
> > > >> >> >> "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > > >> >> >> To post to this group, send email to
> > > >> >> >> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> > > >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> > > >> >> >> For more options, visit this group at
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>
> > > >> >> > --
> > > >> >> > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> > > >> >> > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu =
do
> > zo'o
> > > >> >> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
> > > >> >> > --
> > > >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> > Google
> > > >> >> > Groups
> > > >> >> > "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > > >> >> > To post to this group, send email to
> > > >> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> > > >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > >> >> > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > > >> >> > For more options, visit this group at
> > > >> >> >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
>
> > > >> >> --
> > > >> >> mu'o mi'e .arpis.
>
> > > >> >> --
> > > >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Goo=
gle
> > > >> Groups
> > > >> >> "Lojban Beginners" group.
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> > lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
> > > >> .
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>
> > > >> > --
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> > > >> --
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> > > > =A0--
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> > .
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>
> > > --
> > > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> > > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou=
ps
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> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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