Received: from mail-ob0-f189.google.com ([209.85.214.189]:57911) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SnmZe-0003cS-3W; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 01:10:39 -0700 Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3sf11602884obb.16 for ; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 01:10:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=bQ22eyn8oMAm91zP0Dq6LPSJk7JVcxsyTZF+14JSIBg=; b=E79yRyViqPImUbyf3JpsUtH0XIYMAB+xf4qsWZObvy62FtR9PtbXVKyJCUSEFFvh7d QPpIpzm1TKF+GbWlE9tOjb7qV2m0Q3uYvaW8QjpP4mJ7RsUpbRK+z8hUhI4iIHJ4t4NZ P5+rAwPp/PlMtfsIixXyvglV5B3LggDMvmJHI= Received: by 10.68.233.74 with SMTP id tu10mr1930142pbc.2.1341735027343; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 01:10:27 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.233.8 with SMTP id ts8ls7523272pbc.7.gmail; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 01:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.237.67 with SMTP id va3mr1949687pbc.9.1341735027011; Sun, 08 Jul 2012 01:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 01:10:26 -0700 (PDT) From: gleki To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Message-Id: <3fe35f00-2292-47f2-8174-e085ac192707@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: References: <1897ed28-8a5d-4a2c-8916-8bad921c8240@googlegroups.com> <6530ad91-ce67-4926-b2e8-697ca6a39a36@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: zo'oi pomegranate se fanva fu ma MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_162_1476154.1341735026455" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_162_1476154.1341735026455 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sunday, July 8, 2012 12:37:15 AM UTC+4, tsani wrote: > > It might be so that taxonomists can't figure out what to call this > thing or that thing, but they will eventually come to some kind of > conclusion, not to mention that such disagreements probably have to do > with species that're so uncommon or bizarre that we would most > certainly never need to actually talk about them, unless Lojban should > become the language of science, which is highly unlikely. > > Concerning the fact that "no one like type-3 fu'ivla," it's my opinion > (and that of a handful of others on IRC) that type-3 are the ideal > solution for fu'ivla. On the other hand, I personally think that > type-4 zi'evla should be reserved/used primarily for lojban-based > zi'evla, which in my opinion are the good alternative to cimjvo. > Type 3 fu'ivla is not unnaturalistic at all. Ancient Egyptian (ju'ocu'i the eldest written language that we are aware of) actually had such type of words. e.g. [image: nfr][image: nfr][image: nfr][image: pr] pronounced as *nfrw *means "foundations of a house" where [image: pr] means house in order to distinguish it from other homophones pronounced as *nfrw* as well. It's like {grutrgranate} and {tricrgranate} in Lojban. > Anyway, as for "pomegranate" itself, we had this discussion in IRC and > determined grutrgranate be the best word for it. Conversationally, I > think that you could presumably drop the grutr- after having said the > full word once or twice. > > mu'o mi'e la tsani > > On 7 July 2012 13:07, MorphemeAddict wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 6:46 AM, gleki > wrote: > >> > >> oh my. I even adore this chaos in lojbanists' views. > >> To tell you the truth I don't like lujvo and fu'ivla Type 3 at all. > >> > >> On Saturday, July 7, 2012 2:17:06 PM UTC+4, Lindar wrote: > >>> > >>> I suggest {granatu} from the linnean name "granatum". > >> > >> > >> Your suggestion looks naturalistic but as for biological taxonomy > everyone > >> is right and everyone is wrong. Even biologists can't (and will never) > come > >> to a conclusion what to name this or that organism. > >> > >> I think this is the only part of Lojban where we should "let usage > >> decide". > >> In all the other cases Lojban must be regulated. > > > > > > And how do you propose that the language be regulated? > > > > stevo > >> > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "Lojban Beginners" group. > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/HZRI8YQ0P4MJ. > >> > >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > "Lojban Beginners" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/NHO7v5Ub3oAJ. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. ------=_Part_162_1476154.1341735026455 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sunday, July 8, 2012 12:37:15 AM UTC+4, tsani wrote:
It might be so that taxonomists can't figu= re out what to call this
thing or that thing, but they will eventually come to some kind of
conclusion, not to mention that such disagreements probably have to do
with species that're so uncommon or bizarre that we would most
certainly never need to actually talk about them, unless Lojban should
become the language of science, which is highly unlikely.

Concerning the fact that "no one like type-3 fu'ivla," it's my opinion
(and that of a handful of others on IRC) that type-3 are the ideal
solution for fu'ivla. On the other hand, I personally think that
type-4 zi'evla should be reserved/used primarily for lojban-based
zi'evla, which in my opinion are the good alternative to cimjvo.

Type 3 fu'ivla is not unnaturalistic a= t all. Ancient Egyptian (ju'ocu'i the eldest written language that we are a= ware of) 
actually had such type of words.
e.g.
3D"nfr"3D"nfr"3D"nfr"3D"pr" pro= nounced as nfrw means "foundations of a house" where 3D"pr" means house in order to distinguish it from othe= r homophones pronounced as nfrw as well.

It= 's like {grutrgranate} and {tricrgranate} in Lojban.


Anyway, as for "pomegranate" itself, we had this discussion in IRC and
determined grutrgranate be the best word for it. Conversationally, I
think that you could presumably drop the grutr- after having said the
full word once or twice.

mu'o mi'e la tsani

On 7 July 2012 13:07, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 6:46 AM, gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> = wrote:
>>  
>> oh my. I even adore this chaos in lojbanist= s' views.
>> To tell you the truth I don't like lujvo and fu'ivla Type 3 at= all.
>>
>> On Saturday, July 7, 2012 2:17:06 PM UTC+4, Lindar wrote:
>>>
>>> I suggest {granatu} from the linnean name "granatum".
>>
>>
>> Your suggestion looks naturalistic but as for biological taxon= omy everyone
>> is right and everyone is wrong. Even biologists can't (and wil= l never) come
>> to a conclusion what to name this or that organism.
>>
>> I think this is the only part of Lojban where we should "let u= sage
>> decide".
>> In all the other cases Lojban must be regulated.
>
>
> And how do you propose that the language be regulated?
>
> stevo
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Go= ogle Groups
>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban= -beginners/-/HZRI8YQ0P4MJ.
>>
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups= .com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginne= rs?hl=3Den.
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google= Groups
> "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl= =3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/l= ojban-beginners/-/NHO7v5Ub3oAJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
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