Received: from mail-ob0-f189.google.com ([209.85.214.189]:45304) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Sz4Jw-0006mF-K2; Wed, 08 Aug 2012 04:21:04 -0700 Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3sf746874obb.16 for ; Wed, 08 Aug 2012 04:20:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=H/7qjemMu9HL1LVyOiORIGq+RbF8xOgN25D+BW22H0g=; b=4DnVv1pfO1YJHcxJz0X48ND9t/poGUO6kQL+vVr0HDsqA6Puh9P9k945BPCMZ8rZsp tKNY3GmuGslK18BVgW7kQNUWA5hqyZWgM0pZ687gXgzCW7ix8m6uPqt6tHnbnxMsvZVo gtqoKh58KuqdckEbfa4k12SCojUVbHKYa9Igo= Received: by 10.52.90.69 with SMTP id bu5mr1216000vdb.6.1344424853832; Wed, 08 Aug 2012 04:20:53 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.223.77 with SMTP id ij13ls1063394vcb.1.gmail; Wed, 08 Aug 2012 04:20:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.35.2 with SMTP id d2mr5311456vej.0.1344424853158; Wed, 08 Aug 2012 04:20:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.35.2 with SMTP id d2mr5311455vej.0.1344424853146; Wed, 08 Aug 2012 04:20:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-f181.google.com (mail-vc0-f181.google.com [209.85.220.181]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c10si2558564vdu.1.2012.08.08.04.20.53 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 08 Aug 2012 04:20:53 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of betsemes@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.181 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.181; Received: by vcbfl17 with SMTP id fl17so644977vcb.40 for ; Wed, 08 Aug 2012 04:20:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.178.6 with SMTP id cu6mr8318703vdc.101.1344424852796; Wed, 08 Aug 2012 04:20:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.147.37 with HTTP; Wed, 8 Aug 2012 04:20:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201208062302.06087.phma@phma.optus.nu> <201208070002.10472.phma@phma.optus.nu> <790b043f-085d-479d-98ab-5dbe51bf04b6@j28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> <5f3c1611-8497-46d7-bc2c-34cfead5d0c5@j11g2000vbc.googlegroups.com> <50216ED9.5050608@plasmatix.com> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 07:20:52 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: sedu'u and ko From: Efrain Caro To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: betsemes@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of betsemes@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.181 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=betsemes@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > Really? Then why do they ALL have place tags in their definition? > > du'u abstractor: predication/bridi abstractor; x1 is predication [bridi] > expressed in sentence x2. Jonathan, you are obviously a more knowledgeable person on matters of Lojban than myself; so pardon me whether I'm asking a stupid question. I want to ask why those definitions contain *[bridi]* in their definitions. By themselves, I assume they don't. I must assume thus that the definition refers to a complete abstraction and not the abstractor by itself. How am I wrong? Does any abstractor form an abstraction all by itself? If so, what {lo se du'u kei} would mean? Does it mean {lo se du'u co'e kei}? Or is it illegal? Please, explain. mu'o mi'e betsemes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.