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From: Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: sedu'u and ko
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On 8 August 2012 07:20, Efrain Caro <betsemes@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Really? Then why do they ALL have place tags in their definition?
> >
> > du'u abstractor: predication/bridi abstractor; x1 is predication [bridi]
> > expressed in sentence x2.
>
> Jonathan, you are obviously a more knowledgeable person on matters of
> Lojban than myself; so pardon me whether I'm asking a stupid question.
>
> I want to ask why those definitions contain *[bridi]* in their
> definitions. By themselves, I assume they don't. I must assume thus
> that the definition refers to a complete abstraction and not the
> abstractor by itself. How am I wrong? Does any abstractor form an
> abstraction all by itself? If so, what {lo se du'u kei} would mean?
> Does it mean {lo se du'u co'e kei}? Or is it illegal?
>
> Please, explain.
>
> mu'o mi'e betsemes
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Lojban Beginners" group.
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> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>
>
NU produces a selbri and a selbri contains by definition a place structure.
However, NU *by themselves* don't have a place structure. The selbri that
they produce does. The distinction is subtle, but it does exist. Therefore,
SE do not apply to NU proper. They apply to selbri (and connectives and
tags).

NU cannot be empty: the parse *will* fail. That is to say that {lo du'u
kei} is not grammatical.


mu'o mi'e la tsani

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On 8 August 2012 07:20, Efrain Caro <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:betsemes@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">betsemes@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wr=
ote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div class=3D"im">On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Jonathan Jones &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com">eyeonus@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; Really? Then why do they ALL have place tags in their definition?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; du&#39;u abstractor: predication/bridi abstractor; x1 is predication [=
bridi]<br>
&gt; expressed in sentence x2.<br>
<br>
</div>Jonathan, you are obviously a more knowledgeable person on matters of=
<br>
Lojban than myself; so pardon me whether I&#39;m asking a stupid question.<=
br>
<br>
I want to ask why those definitions contain *[bridi]* in their<br>
definitions. By themselves, I assume they don&#39;t. I must assume thus<br>
that the definition refers to a complete abstraction and not the<br>
abstractor by itself. How am I wrong? Does any abstractor form an<br>
abstraction all by itself? If so, what {lo se du&#39;u kei} would mean?<br>
Does it mean {lo se du&#39;u co&#39;e kei}? Or is it illegal?<br>
<br>
Please, explain.<br>
<br>
mu&#39;o mi&#39;e betsemes<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
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roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><div>NU produces a selbri and a selbri c=
ontains by definition a place structure. However, NU *by themselves* don&#3=
9;t have a place structure. The selbri that they produce does. The distinct=
ion is subtle, but it does exist. Therefore, SE do not apply to NU proper. =
They apply to selbri (and connectives and tags).</div>

<div><br></div><div>NU cannot be empty: the parse *will* fail. That is to s=
ay that {lo du&#39;u kei} is not grammatical.</div><div><br></div><div><br>=
</div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e la tsani</div>

<p></p>

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Lojban Beginners" group.<br />
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/>
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googlegroups.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />



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