Received: from mail-qc0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]:63601) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SzuB0-0002D7-EG; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 11:43:18 -0700 Received: by qcac11 with SMTP id c11sf1931381qca.16 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 11:43:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=wDGmFtcm3Y4+IYlHQfifrbk17A1EwHSQ4PbZvTr9uHc=; b=FrO1q8ePj8HUoxQcaP7hFiXvnhtEXTdDW8PnOzcvSAUyW+B6hZDUdrybE22N7uUdPY EccFhqD/ZH0kaD8wmb9dy8JhFC6WyupuQ/4syoneXDwMGepDTKJg1kapcCVzfgtVtd+b 5LtL4c8AWjBhH910bpTOvNbQ4MWI2ruDfJKxk= Received: by 10.52.66.44 with SMTP id c12mr619649vdt.19.1344624187611; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 11:43:07 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.52.36.237 with SMTP id t13ls3541004vdj.3.gmail; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 11:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.74.197 with SMTP id w5mr1366036vdv.4.1344624186908; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 11:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.74.197 with SMTP id w5mr1366035vdv.4.1344624186890; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 11:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-f178.google.com (mail-vc0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t4si946548vds.3.2012.08.10.11.43.06 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 10 Aug 2012 11:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.178 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.178; Received: by mail-vc0-f178.google.com with SMTP id f13so2420123vcb.23 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 11:43:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.58.144.232 with SMTP id sp8mr177827veb.56.1344624186713; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 11:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.252.162 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 11:43:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 14:43:06 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] my first translation From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.178 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b66fb0501653904c6edb7df X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --047d7b66fb0501653904c6edb7df Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 10:49 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > "We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own." > > It's fairly obvious that "add" is the keyword here- the entire sentence is > built from that relationship. In Lojban, "add" is {jmina} "x1 combines x2 > with x3...". Similarly, the "will" is just {ba}. The hard part in this is > "biological and technological". We have {mivyske} "x1 is biology based on > methodology x2" and {zbaske} "x1 is the technology of product x2...". The > definition of both "biological" and "technological" is "pertaining to > [biology/technology]", so we want to add {srana} "x1 pertains to x2" to > them to get our desired words, so we have {mivyskera'a} "x1 pertains to > biology" and {zbaskera'a} "x1 pertains to technology". > > Next, we have to say "distinctiveness". After some thought, I determined > that the best way would be to use {po} "specific to". This is mainly > because it reduces the amount we have to say. We also probably want to use > {po'o] "...uniquely", which asserts that the relationship is unique to the > sumti it is attached to. So, now we just have to put it all together: > "distinctiveness" is steci, what it is that makes X special. And there is really no need for the -ra'a endings. That's the nice thing about selbri. They function equally well as nouns, verbs, adjectives and adverbs simply by their use in the sentence. And given that I've already defined "mi" to be an implicit plural with my foregoing "mi'e", we can use mi rather than mi'a. so: "mi ba jmina lo mivyske jo'u zbaske steci po do ri po mi" --gejyspa {mi'a ba jmina lo mivyskera'a je zbaskera'a po do po'o ri po mi'a} > > Now we have the first three sentences: > > > "We are the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add > your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own." > {mi'a selcme zo.borg. .i ko sisti lonu nensabji lo nencalku kei gi'e > radydu'a lo do keslo'i .i mi'a ba jmina lo mivyskera'a je zbaskera'a po do > po'o ri po mi'a} > > We have two more left, which I'll do in the next email. > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --047d7b66fb0501653904c6edb7df Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at= 10:49 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
"We will add your biological and technological disti= nctiveness to our own."

It's fairly obvious that &quo= t;add" is the keyword here- the entire sentence is built from that rel= ationship. In Lojban, "add" is {jmina} "x1 combines x2 with = x3...". Similarly, the "will" is just {ba}. The hard part in= this is "biological and technological". We have {mivyske} "= x1 is biology based on methodology x2" and {zbaske} "x1 is the te= chnology of product x2...". The definition of both "biological&qu= ot; and "technological" is "pertaining to [biology/technolog= y]", so we want to add {srana} "x1 pertains to x2" to them t= o get our desired words, so we have {mivyskera'a} "x1 pertains to = biology" and {zbaskera'a} "x1 pertains to technology".
Next, we have to say "distinctiveness". After some thought, I= determined that the best way would be to use {po} "specific to".= This is mainly because it reduces the amount we have to say. We also proba= bly want to use {po'o] "...uniquely", which asserts that the = relationship is unique to the sumti it is attached to.=A0 So, now we just h= ave to put it all together:

=A0 "distinctiveness" is steci, = what it is that makes X special. And there is really no need for the -ra= 9;a endings. =A0That's the nice thing about selbri. =A0They function eq= ually well as nouns, verbs, adjectives and adverbs simply by their use in t= he sentence. =A0

=A0 =A0 And given that I've already defined "m= i" to be an implicit plural with my foregoing "mi'e", we= can use mi rather than mi'a. so:
"mi ba jmina lo mivysk= e jo'u zbaske steci po do ri po mi"
=A0
=A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa

{mi'a ba jmina lo mivyskera'a je zbaskera'a po = do po'o ri po mi'a}

Now we have the first three sentences:


"We are the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will= add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own."
{mi'a selcme zo.borg. .i ko sisti lonu nensabji lo nencalku kei = gi'e radydu'a lo do keslo'i .i mi'a ba jmina lo mivyskera&#= 39;a je zbaskera'a po do po'o ri po mi'a}

We have two more left, which I'll do in the next email.


--
mu'o mi'= e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. m= i patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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