Received: from mail-ob0-f189.google.com ([209.85.214.189]:43225) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1T02nD-0007d7-JO; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 20:55:21 -0700 Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3sf2356435obb.16 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 20:55:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=qOncF1Bi+3pbGnC7Diye9K9QKisvpG1DmNpV3LvWyKI=; b=WLzXomtMPpE/HM6J+eOqubZxJWBeFhZqLs5kkAPGIv1P1ezfIWJ4yBOVP64C51IN4E 5irQo2fS3k/4PolPGxLrfF7p+vTMsvGjJc68mM1NezxIpzWMe8mjhKVRDIqmpbacKdX7 Z5fhmCPAv0YOU6VWtoDYNZtiyyaa5yJB9X8kA= Received: by 10.236.147.175 with SMTP id t35mr1182352yhj.17.1344657308297; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 20:55:08 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.236.170.229 with SMTP id p65ls5592324yhl.5.gmail; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 20:55:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.179.72 with SMTP id g48mr2655917yhm.37.1344657307738; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 20:55:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.179.72 with SMTP id g48mr2655916yhm.37.1344657307726; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 20:55:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chausie (cpe-069-132-101-103.carolina.res.rr.com. [69.132.101.103]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id l23si212381yhk.6.2012.08.10.20.55.06; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 20:55:06 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 69.132.101.103 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=69.132.101.103; Received: from ip6-localhost (ip6-localhost [IPv6:::1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id B36462AF61 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 23:55:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: my first translation Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 23:55:01 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <371f2346-48d0-469e-9a5e-2fd716715a52@m13g2000vbd.googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <371f2346-48d0-469e-9a5e-2fd716715a52@m13g2000vbd.googlegroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201208102355.03798.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 69.132.101.103 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / On Friday 10 August 2012 16:20:18 ianek wrote: > {lai}, {loi}, {lei} are not plural. A mass can be equally well > composed of one component. That said, I don't quite get what masses > are in Lojban, eg. why {lo matne} can't be a mass: > http://dag.github.com/cll/6/3/ Whether or not a mass is correct in the > context of Borg, plurality is not implied. If there is one stick of butter somewhere, it is equally correct to call it "lo matne" and "loi matne". If there are two or more sticks of butter, there is a semantic difference between "lo matne" and "loi matne", which is a bit hard to explain without some predicate. Butters don't carry pianos, or take any action, and they are subdivisible. Here's my example of "lo/loi" being the opposite of singular/plural: lo mi kerfa cu jdari .iku'i loi mi kerfa cu ranti My hairs are hard, but my hair is soft. Pierre -- li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.