Received: from mail-qc0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]:44873) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1T02uK-0007rJ-Lz; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 21:02:45 -0700 Received: by qcac11 with SMTP id c11sf2359989qca.16 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 21:02:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=T8kXSN4gk3L/lNr/M9QF1t7fEhRXhNYDc90BcKcdRjo=; b=G3oQkAxoV+uFDficr4lWDrjl/QWOEvl+QxressM3LbNm2+W9VhHB/li5ovhMRV9STh av6qD6FTzX9fMGaOd3odKnuj5QWv8lCd565EK29r671kBrq/NQWAiw8vVjRYK+3N83vi ocnzg3GVJixfH2o1KVJC23fTcLooDBQo9NPgw= Received: by 10.52.71.7 with SMTP id q7mr763533vdu.20.1344657749846; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 21:02:29 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.52.93.40 with SMTP id cr8ls3801899vdb.8.gmail; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 21:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.117.41 with SMTP id kb9mr507050veb.27.1344657749423; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 21:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.117.41 with SMTP id kb9mr507048veb.27.1344657749414; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 21:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vb0-f52.google.com (mail-vb0-f52.google.com [209.85.212.52]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y4si119558vds.2.2012.08.10.21.02.29 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 10 Aug 2012 21:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.52 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.52; Received: by vbjk17 with SMTP id k17so2271343vbj.11 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 21:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.200.197 with SMTP id ju5mr4867854vec.36.1344657749230; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 21:02:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.58.252.104 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 21:02:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201208102355.03798.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <371f2346-48d0-469e-9a5e-2fd716715a52@m13g2000vbd.googlegroups.com> <201208102355.03798.phma@phma.optus.nu> From: ".arpis." Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 00:02:09 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: my first translation To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.52 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / That seems to be exemplifying the difference between individual and collective. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 11:55 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Friday 10 August 2012 16:20:18 ianek wrote: >> {lai}, {loi}, {lei} are not plural. A mass can be equally well >> composed of one component. That said, I don't quite get what masses >> are in Lojban, eg. why {lo matne} can't be a mass: >> http://dag.github.com/cll/6/3/ Whether or not a mass is correct in the >> context of Borg, plurality is not implied. > > If there is one stick of butter somewhere, it is equally correct to call > it "lo matne" and "loi matne". If there are two or more sticks of butter, > there is a semantic difference between "lo matne" and "loi matne", which is a > bit hard to explain without some predicate. Butters don't carry pianos, or > take any action, and they are subdivisible. > > Here's my example of "lo/loi" being the opposite of singular/plural: > lo mi kerfa cu jdari .iku'i loi mi kerfa cu ranti > My hairs are hard, but my hair is soft. > > Pierre > -- > li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du > li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .arpis. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.