Received: from mail-gg0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]:39756) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1T8BT0-0002iL-BO; Sun, 02 Sep 2012 07:48:08 -0700 Received: by ggcs5 with SMTP id s5sf4253004ggc.16 for ; Sun, 02 Sep 2012 07:47:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=c/tj4vu4FzGXBkGoWbEQj/LHKdRqZD2vCXnbblQmt9k=; b=XsditUlBO1dqXkItAWMhK85Zf4lBE/1wM2gbe1UPIOv/5SZDfzVhiuNM+BZGTjHKmR 1sZCC8iUrDQMkMOxpwzzvj5D/5ChTZBnUu8BuHSfYv5BGDzVIYLRLaGMCzzKLMACGXD8 ERwNh1AdLrb8BirfXHnK++jam/hGCUc1/iZPlknROal2GurFBOF4uBMfM/c9vOAYziwh Sm51tKivgZ8XHrl+yUr7zwDq5EaQ5cUpSgEGkXDOPdN+g6BWD3jLI+EBUX+HLaPWs2w5 rwKaMjGUxFNhQKa7vMVrKhjMk1zku0d96mYEwpw9i43wAGy0h0UR78nlLuC3WH3OL+0v eRFQ== Received: by 10.52.97.102 with SMTP id dz6mr1943132vdb.2.1346597275631; Sun, 02 Sep 2012 07:47:55 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.149.129 with SMTP id t1ls3974935vcv.0.gmail; Sun, 02 Sep 2012 07:47:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.2.40 with SMTP id 8mr3787433ver.14.1346597275151; Sun, 02 Sep 2012 07:47:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.2.40 with SMTP id 8mr3787432ver.14.1346597275139; Sun, 02 Sep 2012 07:47:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vb0-f47.google.com (mail-vb0-f47.google.com [209.85.212.47]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ef10si999500vdb.3.2012.09.02.07.47.55 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 02 Sep 2012 07:47:55 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of nictytan@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.47; Received: by vbbfr13 with SMTP id fr13so5136236vbb.34 for ; Sun, 02 Sep 2012 07:47:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.88.234 with SMTP id bj10mr8046473vdb.48.1346597274904; Sun, 02 Sep 2012 07:47:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.178.106 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Sep 2012 07:47:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <369b1b83-0407-4ccf-aa59-89a5ffbaf473@googlegroups.com> References: <369b1b83-0407-4ccf-aa59-89a5ffbaf473@googlegroups.com> From: Jacob Errington Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 10:47:34 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Where should I use sets and where should I use masses? To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: nictytan@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of nictytan@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.47 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=nictytan@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec501672739e9ef04c8b91c37 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --bcaec501672739e9ef04c8b91c37 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 All sets have the same types of properties such as cardinality, but have non of the properties of the things of which they are a set. That is to say that {lo'i gerku} and {lo'i jubme} have the same properties, such as cardinality again, but have none of the underlying properties of dogs or tables, respectively. Sets are required in some places in lojban, such as simxu1 and cmima2 (these relationships don't actually involve the underlying properties of the elements of the set) e.g. lo'i ro jbopre cu simxu lo ka ce'u slabu ce'u -> All lojbanists know each other. e.g. ko cmima lo'i jbopre -> Join the lojbanists! Aside from that, there is an interesting, albeit unused in practice, thing we can do with sets which is cartesian product, pairing up two sets, with the JOI {pi'u}. .i mi'e la tsani mu'o On 2 September 2012 08:47, gleki wrote: > {loi prenu cu sruri lo dinju} - why not lo gunma be lo prenu cu sruri lo > dinju? > > {lo'i tirxu cu cmalu} - why not so'u tirxu? > > Can you give better examples? > I'm not a mathematician and don't clearly understand the trick with sets > and masses. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/_ysdbRWQWVYJ. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --bcaec501672739e9ef04c8b91c37 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All sets have the same types of properties such as cardinality, but have no= n of the properties of the things of which they are a set.
That is to s= ay that {lo'i gerku} and {lo'i jubme} have the same properties, suc= h as cardinality again, but have none of the underlying properties of dogs = or tables, respectively.

Sets are required in some places in lojban, such as sim= xu1 and cmima2 (these relationships don't actually involve the underlyi= ng properties of the elements of the set)=A0

e.g. = lo'i ro jbopre cu simxu lo ka ce'u slabu ce'u -> All lojbani= sts know each other.
e.g. ko cmima lo'i jbopre -> Join the lojbanists!
Aside from that, there is an interesting, albeit unused in prac= tice, thing we can do with sets which is cartesian product, pairing up two = sets, with the JOI {pi'u}.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

On 2 September 2012 08:47, gleki <gleki.is.my.na= me@gmail.com> wrote:
{loi prenu cu sruri lo dinju} - why not lo g= unma be lo prenu cu sruri lo dinju?

{lo'i tirxu cu c= malu} - why not so'u tirxu?

Can you give better examples?
I'm not a m= athematician and don't clearly understand the trick with sets and masse= s.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.= google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/_ysdbRWQWVYJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--bcaec501672739e9ef04c8b91c37--