Received: from mail-bk0-f61.google.com ([209.85.214.61]:33596)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDG6o2CBRoEy1gCIQ@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1T8BiA-0002pP-86; Sun, 02 Sep 2012 08:03:48 -0700
Received: by bkwj4 with SMTP id j4sf1555693bkw.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Sun, 02 Sep 2012 08:03:34 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
         :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=wFsW0LjqT3LaaQRhyN01t99fj8zoCD+jVJzrdJ5XgLQ=;
        b=aAEf7kvOSLnWgBah1Fh1K5sX7lme5OWFfDf4Zr5DYm5UtmVjZzV31hHcxi2dHnFGdn
         mpEEcDB6taAMZAD/cihP6Ip1kkF++d0/ya61drd7J9/3eowZeUCIgG8wzhQih9ctgJVh
         hynvQ6/HEzS35aIwLrIHfPJdtSpZsjIBOKXiQk5Jdo/8lQ8cUeeaQtyYUwQtdD7Sj7wd
         YhoW9aOMexmI1hes3dCmu2likPuHl71QM3cyF8RbVfXFDFNNmfOZhfJNMNPioSepKvgS
         R2AvwCBALvB3owY1xdffJvF1MQweLZv6NLAjXKRrWfniya5GjXh6nuXpYsDCig07dxjk
         KGTg==
Received: by 10.180.93.137 with SMTP id cu9mr757732wib.1.1346598214369;
        Sun, 02 Sep 2012 08:03:34 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.14.172.194 with SMTP id t42ls1591388eel.0.gmail; Sun, 02 Sep
 2012 08:03:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.14.220.131 with SMTP id o3mr12626731eep.6.1346598213771;
        Sun, 02 Sep 2012 08:03:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.14.220.131 with SMTP id o3mr12626730eep.6.1346598213760;
        Sun, 02 Sep 2012 08:03:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ey0-f173.google.com (mail-ey0-f173.google.com [209.85.215.173])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d5si14292207eep.0.2012.09.02.08.03.33
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Sun, 02 Sep 2012 08:03:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.173 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.173;
Received: by eaac13 with SMTP id c13so1332288eaa.4
        for <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>; Sun, 02 Sep 2012 08:03:33 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.14.182.134 with SMTP id o6mr17679144eem.26.1346598213622; Sun,
 02 Sep 2012 08:03:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.14.95.78 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Sep 2012 08:03:33 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CAOQ8VDUCkSVyFRG_4td_EAhiZ3XUO9bbr4-MNprN0oCwptsqRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <369b1b83-0407-4ccf-aa59-89a5ffbaf473@googlegroups.com>
	<CAOQ8VDUCkSVyFRG_4td_EAhiZ3XUO9bbr4-MNprN0oCwptsqRw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 12:03:33 -0300
Message-ID: <CAO7tK2fBXVoCVAVDK0Gm92Kn2inywE6GzBYeYEhKXwHi7UAypw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Where should I use sets and where should I use masses?
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.173 as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:googlegroups-manage+300742228892+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.7
X-Spam_score_int: -6
X-Spam_bar: /

On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sets are required in some places in lojban, such as simxu1 and cmima2 (these
> relationships don't actually involve the underlying properties of the
> elements of the set)
>
> e.g. lo'i ro jbopre cu simxu lo ka ce'u slabu ce'u -> All lojbanists know
> each other.
> e.g. ko cmima lo'i jbopre -> Join the lojbanists!

The disadvantage of defining "simxu" and "cmima" that way, is that you
can't easily say things like:

lo ro jbopre cu zvati ti gi'e simxu lo ka ce'u slabu ce'u
All lojbanists are here and know each other.

I don't see any advantage to defining "simxu" and the few other gismu
that are defined that way in terms of sets, so I use them as if they
were defined in a more user-friendly manner, in terms of ordinary
groups rather than mathematical sets.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.