Received: from mail-ie0-f189.google.com ([209.85.223.189]:62287)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncCKOXn8wTEJqgnIIFGgS-coOk@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1T9BAZ-0007fb-19; Wed, 05 Sep 2012 01:41:14 -0700
Received: by ieak10 with SMTP id k10sf185909iea.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Wed, 05 Sep 2012 01:41:00 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject
         :mime-version:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results
         :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id
         :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe
         :list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=8VgguxOaL119LR2UKyCemOol6+b3cP64EBmEm/+q7sQ=;
        b=gO50rysPBLv5LsPa5oo12tqkdYJBUhyCC7xuxUOYBCEQa42sVOu8SLQ+cQl1UwlIAz
         Blmuih3s4kNKKMg/rtCl7hRnUOEUHsZdsg8OE5Xws7lsbODqFgmsvfySHi+xPHRWsXFi
         RlIgMHV5PBRYfJCVqC1jPUoLBTiOniWoGrjrcXR/8YVe5CG25Gi2PgmirGJG+Xwz/iQd
         vkLL5fnZx1BbuufshLigkE9s0Mc81uW46FOE8lyGiqYIhzsl1LPiFPfeBuB9FyLHmmDT
         4PjdYmcLxE5j72OWNcfPjIUD+sDd9izMu++Pa6geWw3+S1VFKGt8Vu6E8lpYEjAkDCeY
         WFXA==
Received: by 10.224.209.133 with SMTP id gg5mr3544777qab.5.1346834459983;
        Wed, 05 Sep 2012 01:40:59 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.101.48.8 with SMTP id a8ls65719ank.0.gmail; Wed, 05 Sep 2012
 01:40:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.236.74.161 with SMTP id x21mr2061801yhd.13.1346834458838;
        Wed, 05 Sep 2012 01:40:58 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 01:40:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Message-Id: <8bfd0542-1d0d-4b70-b866-59cb7507750b@googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAOQ8VDVyyNaykwxeCMAZCLp39jpWVAGphJNpQQSnVqiuAOicyA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <369b1b83-0407-4ccf-aa59-89a5ffbaf473@googlegroups.com> <CAPAJj9LD4YkaKXib+W6uvmYx7cd0h3BF_yR_humB3v7RMg4BDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOQ8VDVyyNaykwxeCMAZCLp39jpWVAGphJNpQQSnVqiuAOicyA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Where should I use sets and where should I use masses?
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of
 gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass
 header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:googlegroups-manage+300742228892+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
	boundary="----=_Part_3084_33289743.1346834458209"
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.7
X-Spam_score_int: -6
X-Spam_bar: /

------=_Part_3084_33289743.1346834458209
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1



On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 6:48:22 PM UTC+4, tsani wrote:
>
> On 4 September 2012 04:18, tijlan <jbot...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote:
>
>> On 2 September 2012 13:47, gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com <javascript:>> 
>> wrote:
>> > {loi prenu cu sruri lo dinju} - why not lo gunma be lo prenu cu sruri 
>> lo dinju?
>>
>> {loi prenu} means {lo gunma be lo prenu}. If you reckon the latter is
>> correct, you would think the former is correct too.
>>
>
> {loi} and {lo'i} are just shortcuts for LAhE or longer bridi expressions.
>  
>
>>
>> That's a comparison between different ways of expressing a mass,
>> whereas "Where should I use sets and where should I use masses?" is
>> asking for a comparison between set expressions & mass expressions in
>> the same places:
>>
>> ( loi / lo'i ) prenu cu sruri lo dinju -- which gadri?
>>
>
> Sets have no representation in reality and exist in a somewhat ethereal 
> realm alongside bridi (lo du'u broda) and text (lu ma drani danfu). 
> Therefore they can't surround anything.
>  
>
>>
>>
>> > {lo'i tirxu cu cmalu} - why not so'u tirxu?
>>
>> Do you mean
>> "Why {lo'i tirxu cu cmalu} and not {so'u tirxu}?"
>>
>
Well, yes I meant this one. ^ ^ ^ 

or
>> "Why {lo'i tirxu cu cmalu} and not {so'u tirxu cu cmalu}?"
>> or
>> "Why {lo'i tirxu cu cmalu} and not {loi tirxu cu so'u mei}?"
>> ?
>>
>>
> Sets can be big or small. They have a cardinality, i.e. a size, which is 
> comparable. This leads to the drastic difference between {lo'i tirxu cu 
> cmalu} and {lo tirxu cu cmalu}: {lo'i tirxu cu cmalu} says simply that the 
> *set* of tigers is small and says *nothing* about the actual tigers, 
> whereas {lo tirxu cu cmalu} (regardless of any quantifiers) says that the 
> tigers are each small. You can have a small set of enormous tigers in the 
> same way that you can have a large set of tiny ones.
>
>>
>> mu'o
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>> lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
>> For more options, visit this group at 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>>
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/QmHXs2PP6DcJ.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.


------=_Part_3084_33289743.1346834458209
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<br><br>On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 6:48:22 PM UTC+4, tsani wrote:<blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-lef=
t: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On 4 September 2012 04:18, tijlan <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated=
-mailto=3D"aXYFXsK368cJ">jbot...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0=
 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div>On 2 September 2012 13:47, gleki &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D=
"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"aXYFXsK368cJ">gleki.is...@gmail.com</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br>
&gt; {loi prenu cu sruri lo dinju} - why not lo gunma be lo prenu cu sruri =
lo dinju?<br>
<br>
</div>{loi prenu} means {lo gunma be lo prenu}. If you reckon the latter is=
<br>
correct, you would think the former is correct too.<br></blockquote><div><b=
r></div><div>{loi} and {lo'i} are just shortcuts for LAhE or longer bridi e=
xpressions.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


<br>
That's a comparison between different ways of expressing a mass,<br>
whereas "Where should I use sets and where should I use masses?" is<br>
asking for a comparison between set expressions &amp; mass expressions in<b=
r>
the same places:<br>
<br>
( loi / lo'i ) prenu cu sruri lo dinju -- which gadri?<br></blockquote><div=
><br></div><div>Sets have no representation in reality and exist in a somew=
hat ethereal realm alongside bridi (lo du'u broda) and text (lu ma drani da=
nfu). Therefore they can't surround anything.</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><br>
<br>
&gt; {lo'i tirxu cu cmalu} - why not so'u tirxu?<br>
<br>
</div>Do you mean<br>
"Why {lo'i tirxu cu cmalu} and not {so'u tirxu}?"<br></blockquote></div></b=
lockquote><div><br></div><div>Well, yes I meant this one. ^ ^ ^&nbsp;</div>=
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-=
left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
or<br>
"Why {lo'i tirxu cu cmalu} and not {so'u tirxu cu cmalu}?"<br>
or<br>
"Why {lo'i tirxu cu cmalu} and not {loi tirxu cu so'u mei}?"<br>
?<br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Sets can be big or small. They have a =
cardinality, i.e. a size, which is comparable. This leads to the drastic di=
fference between {lo'i tirxu cu cmalu} and {lo tirxu cu cmalu}: {lo'i tirxu=
 cu cmalu} says simply that the *set* of tigers is small and says *nothing*=
 about the actual tigers, whereas {lo tirxu cu cmalu} (regardless of any qu=
antifiers) says that the tigers are each small. You can have a small set of=
 enormous tigers in the same way that you can have a large set of tiny ones=
.</div>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
mu'o<br>
<div><br>
--<br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.<br>
</div><div><div>To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"javascript:=
" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"aXYFXsK368cJ">lojban-b...@goog=
legroups.<wbr>com</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"javascript:" targe=
t=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"aXYFXsK368cJ">lojban-beginne...@<wbr>=
googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/<=
wbr>group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>
</blockquote>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.<br />
To view this discussion on the web visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.c=
om/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/QmHXs2PP6DcJ">https://groups.google.com/d/msg/l=
ojban-beginners/-/QmHXs2PP6DcJ</a>.<br />=20
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />



------=_Part_3084_33289743.1346834458209--