Received: from mail-gh0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]:55072)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncBD5L7HFA2ECRBCFB4GBQKGQEV7DFN6A@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1TMir9-0008JY-H1; Fri, 12 Oct 2012 10:17:07 -0700
Received: by mail-gh0-f189.google.com with SMTP id f15sf2507633ghb.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Fri, 12 Oct 2012 10:16:57 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:subject:mime-version
         :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id
         :x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type
         :content-transfer-encoding;
        bh=4x6oo5oqoMhookutDmLzAeuRDgJbGl88Orr8uHhH480=;
        b=tMHrbVIftuKz6aMIjj5xFHYT9nEUiFlSm+TMfcwK4MJshDFkvOZ5QA6f7TGKfkidrO
         SHQfgOEHByY3OobBXi9PoFlN/3gW/f74OEXn3UQ8yS+SFK8nNk3HYP8ve2jmlhXNNiqO
         zIrAndh+gPMLTJGhbTi3Z8eBB40DS0gXbX03Lv8FjOPbIbFK1ujikcrXTz4XTBtd6DKZ
         eY5BWbV4XnnW2BhDlWQBJUnegedSwxz4wqXZoDAU+GcK2g4pWAnC6s6V/SPbgkXgS8Sh
         iWVM3SK8bbbpNUdrv0ybBJX2qTGwM8I20k00YI1R8xJvKIyIqFDMfRFu8ns71HkRzYXD
         R9IA==
Received: by 10.52.66.235 with SMTP id i11mr977979vdt.7.1350062216798;
        Fri, 12 Oct 2012 10:16:56 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.220.107.208 with SMTP id c16ls2395826vcp.3.gmail; Fri, 12 Oct
 2012 10:16:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.52.156.115 with SMTP id wd19mr979118vdb.2.1350062216278;
        Fri, 12 Oct 2012 10:16:56 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 10:16:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: mashers <mail@mashley.net>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Message-Id: <afaafe5f-8881-4c6e-a1b7-2dc490000b69@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Place structure vs. grammatical morphemes
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Original-Sender: mail@mashley.net
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:googlegroups-manage+300742228892+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.7
X-Spam_score_int: -6
X-Spam_bar: /

coi ro do! I'm a newbie to Lojban and am just learning the basics of the gr=
ammar. The regular structure of the language really appeals to me, but I ha=
ve one question. Please could somebody explain to me the advantage of place=
 structure compared to grammatical morphemes which exist in other languages=
? Take the example of 'klama'. In order to understand {mi klama le zdani le=
 panka}, I have to know that x1 of klama is the person travelling, x2 is th=
e destination and x3 is the source. This means, as a learner, that I have t=
o learn not only that 'llama' expresses the concept I label in English usin=
g 'come', 'go' or 'travel', I also have to learn the place structure. This =
is five additional pieces of information (in the case of klama). Another le=
arner, who may also have an infirm grasp of Lojban vocabulary, may mistake =
the place structure of the brivla. They might think x2 is the source and x3=
 is the destination, meaning they misunderstand the communication.

So my question is, why is it better to have place structure files by sumti =
(and assume that listeners know the place structure for the brivlas you are=
 using) than it is to just use grammatical morphemes? In this example, the =
English prepositions 'to' and 'from' tell the listener unambiguously that t=
he following noun [phrase] represents the destination and source of the jou=
rney respectively.

Although this does not dampen my enthusiasm for Lojban, I would be interest=
ed to hear others' thoughts on this.

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lo=
jban-beginners/-/IZpZYa9O-GAJ.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.