Received: from mail-yh0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]:53578) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TN7dI-0008TP-Fr; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:44:31 -0700 Received: by mail-yh0-f61.google.com with SMTP id o21sf3320238yho.16 for ; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:44:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=R6OJGJuC8wOaMnc4TmNtyW37PwAqHWESlAKP4iis7WM=; b=E2P9OAAuhUk9r+NZ0Rsxat/5xtz/Fnuwo+d8PwBe008NUnKm9qXKvbzqKROBBoYYw8 p6lpETDPnmeoi5Aw9l5ZXEQ5hPkU2M8oq8E5BFH9a12rzT4dQQ60zUAIerJnwu0ANr3F 2jh0ygopwfS6B2sBAC7UxCcLZDG1y9GzXl5YwAYbNUkAzq6aDtKBIIL9VWZGkbCo4i9q fASvcLAFdFqIGxED/3FZNsyFOd2dunB9QgHaXkVmTYfSODef/A7I5wWl4NXEmK76PGDo x5vbo+lcXZYJ7/+/UjPht1GaTiJn1fp6yAIrTYTXFsfUKmEJPlCJXv6yndnH5h08rkAk +CwQ== Received: by 10.68.189.37 with SMTP id gf5mr1871506pbc.16.1350157457580; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:44:17 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.226.100 with SMTP id rr4ls14109591pbc.2.gmail; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:44:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.85.130 with SMTP id h2mr1883596paz.8.1350157456982; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:44:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.85.130 with SMTP id h2mr1883595paz.8.1350157456974; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:44:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-f41.google.com (mail-pb0-f41.google.com [209.85.160.41]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id nt8si2803448pbb.1.2012.10.13.12.44.16 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:44:16 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of felipeg.assis@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.41 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.41; Received: by mail-pb0-f41.google.com with SMTP id rq2so3530448pbb.28 for ; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:44:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.66.74.6 with SMTP id p6mr20924062pav.40.1350157456841; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:44:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.136.162 with HTTP; Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:44:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 16:44:16 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Place structure vs. grammatical morphemes From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Felipe_Gon=E7alves_Assis?= To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: felipeg.assis@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of felipeg.assis@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=felipeg.assis@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / On 13 October 2012 03:51, mashers wrote: > But those roles still exist. They are defined in the brivla. The only dif= ference I can see is that the role being specified is not announced explici= tly, it is implied by the place structure of the brivla. Surely the same ef= fect could be achieved by having a more flexible or complete set of pronoun= s/prepositions, resulting in greater breadth of communication of the semant= ics while still allowing the speaker to be explicit about the role they are= talking about without assuming that the listener is familiar with the plac= e structure of the brivla. > The roles _exist_? What is the role of dunda3? Is it the same as the one of klama2, as suggested by the English preposition "to", or is it the same as the role of xamgu2, as suggested by the use of the dative in Latin? In othe= r words, is it like the destination of a movement or the beneficiary of an ac= t? Also, what are the roles of pritu{1,2,3}? mu'o mi'e .asiz. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.