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From: mudri <jammyatjammy@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] {ja'e} vs {seri'a}, {semu'i} &c.
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These two replies are contradictory, though I'm more convinced by the 
second. So which more specific "therefore" would be used in the first 
answer's example?

On Saturday, 3 November 2012 07:16:16 UTC, tijlan wrote:
>
> On 2 November 2012 17:34, mudri <jammya...@gmail.com <javascript:>> 
> wrote: 
> > Can someone explain {ja'e} to me, and why I shouldn't use one of the 
> "because" modals in its place? 
>
> {ja'e} comes from {jalge}, which says that x1 is an outcome of x2, 
> without specifying the nature of "because". {ja'e ___} refers to the 
> consequence; use {se ja'e ___} for the antecedent. 
>
> {ri'a}, {mu'i}, {ki'u}, {ni'i} ... are more specific. Also their x1 & 
> x2 are the inverse of {ja'e}'s; it's {ri'a ___}, not {se ri'a ___}, 
> that refers to the antecedent. 
>
> You can replace {se ja'e} with a more specific modal: 
>
>   lo bloti cu spofu se ja'e lo nu janli 
>   The ship is broken, from (as a result of) the collision. 
>
>   lo bloti cu spofu ri'a lo nu janli 
>   The ship is broken, physically from (as a physical effect of) the 
> collision. 
>
>
> mu'o 
>

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These two replies are contradictory, though I'm more convinced by the secon=
d. So which more specific "therefore" would be used in the first answer's e=
xample?<br><br>On Saturday, 3 November 2012 07:16:16 UTC, tijlan  wrote:<bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border=
-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On 2 November 2012 17:34, mudri &=
lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"E8_El=
58AAqgJ">jammya...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
<br>&gt; Can someone explain {ja'e} to me, and why I shouldn't use one of t=
he "because" modals in its place?
<br>
<br>{ja'e} comes from {jalge}, which says that x1 is an outcome of x2,
<br>without specifying the nature of "because". {ja'e ___} refers to the
<br>consequence; use {se ja'e ___} for the antecedent.
<br>
<br>{ri'a}, {mu'i}, {ki'u}, {ni'i} ... are more specific. Also their x1 &am=
p;
<br>x2 are the inverse of {ja'e}'s; it's {ri'a ___}, not {se ri'a ___},
<br>that refers to the antecedent.
<br>
<br>You can replace {se ja'e} with a more specific modal:
<br>
<br>&nbsp; lo bloti cu spofu se ja'e lo nu janli
<br>&nbsp; The ship is broken, from (as a result of) the collision.
<br>
<br>&nbsp; lo bloti cu spofu ri'a lo nu janli
<br>&nbsp; The ship is broken, physically from (as a physical effect of) th=
e collision.
<br>
<br>
<br>mu'o
<br></blockquote>

<p></p>

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