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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] {ja'e} vs {seri'a}, {semu'i} &c.
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On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 3:41 AM, mudri <jammyatjammy@gmail.com> wrote:

> These two replies are contradictory, though I'm more convinced by the
> second.


No they aren't. His example is using {se ja'e}, whereas mine uses {ja'e}.

seja'e <http://vlasisku.lojban.org/vlasisku/seja%27e> = "... results
because of ..."

ja'e <http://vlasisku.lojban.org/vlasisku/ja%27e> = "... resulting in ..."

What comes before {se ja'e} is a result of what comes after {se ja'e}. What
comes before {ja'e} results in what comes after {ja'e}.


> So which more specific "therefore" would be used in the first answer's
> example?
>
> On Saturday, 3 November 2012 07:16:16 UTC, tijlan wrote:
>
>> On 2 November 2012 17:34, mudri <jammya...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Can someone explain {ja'e} to me, and why I shouldn't use one of the
>> "because" modals in its place?
>>
>> {ja'e} comes from {jalge}, which says that x1 is an outcome of x2,
>> without specifying the nature of "because". {ja'e ___} refers to the
>> consequence; use {se ja'e ___} for the antecedent.
>>
>> {ri'a}, {mu'i}, {ki'u}, {ni'i} ... are more specific. Also their x1 &
>> x2 are the inverse of {ja'e}'s; it's {ri'a ___}, not {se ri'a ___},
>> that refers to the antecedent.
>>
>> You can replace {se ja'e} with a more specific modal:
>>
>>   lo bloti cu spofu se ja'e lo nu janli
>>   The ship is broken, from (as a result of) the collision.
>>
>>   lo bloti cu spofu ri'a lo nu janli
>>   The ship is broken, physically from (as a physical effect of) the
>> collision.
>>
>>
>> mu'o
>>
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-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 3:41 AM, mudri <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jammyatjammy@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ja=
mmyatjammy@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
">
These two replies are contradictory, though I&#39;m more convinced by the s=
econd.</blockquote><div><br>No they aren&#39;t. His example is using {se ja=
&#39;e}, whereas mine uses {ja&#39;e}.<br><br><a href=3D"http://vlasisku.lo=
jban.org/vlasisku/seja%27e">seja&#39;e</a> =3D &quot;... results because of=
 ...&quot;<br>
<br><a href=3D"http://vlasisku.lojban.org/vlasisku/ja%27e">ja&#39;e</a> =3D=
 &quot;... resulting in ...&quot;<br><br>What comes before {se ja&#39;e} is=
 a result of what comes after {se ja&#39;e}. What comes before {ja&#39;e} r=
esults in what comes after {ja&#39;e}.<br>
=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">So which more specific &quot;theref=
ore&quot; would be used in the first answer&#39;s example?<br><br>On Saturd=
ay, 3 November 2012 07:16:16 UTC, tijlan  wrote:<div class=3D"im">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On 2 November 2012 17:34, mudri &lt=
;<a>jammya...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
<br>&gt; Can someone explain {ja&#39;e} to me, and why I shouldn&#39;t use =
one of the &quot;because&quot; modals in its place?
<br>
<br>{ja&#39;e} comes from {jalge}, which says that x1 is an outcome of x2,
<br>without specifying the nature of &quot;because&quot;. {ja&#39;e ___} re=
fers to the
<br>consequence; use {se ja&#39;e ___} for the antecedent.
<br>
<br>{ri&#39;a}, {mu&#39;i}, {ki&#39;u}, {ni&#39;i} ... are more specific. A=
lso their x1 &amp;
<br>x2 are the inverse of {ja&#39;e}&#39;s; it&#39;s {ri&#39;a ___}, not {s=
e ri&#39;a ___},
<br>that refers to the antecedent.
<br>
<br>You can replace {se ja&#39;e} with a more specific modal:
<br>
<br>=A0 lo bloti cu spofu se ja&#39;e lo nu janli
<br>=A0 The ship is broken, from (as a result of) the collision.
<br>
<br>=A0 lo bloti cu spofu ri&#39;a lo nu janli
<br>=A0 The ship is broken, physically from (as a physical effect of) the c=
ollision.
<br>
<br>
<br>mu&#39;o
<br></blockquote>

<p></p>

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<br>=20
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi=
&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l=
uk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. =
:D )<br>
<br>

<p></p>

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/>
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