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Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 03:43:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: mudri <jammyatjammy@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] {ja'e} vs {seri'a}, {semu'i} &c.
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Your first answer gave no new information? By the title of the thread, I 
implied that I knew that {ja'e} matched up to {seri'a}, {semu'i} and others.

On Saturday, 3 November 2012 10:30:52 UTC, aionys wrote:
>
> On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 3:41 AM, mudri <jammya...@gmail.com <javascript:>>wrote:
>
>> These two replies are contradictory, though I'm more convinced by the 
>> second.
>
>
> No they aren't. His example is using {se ja'e}, whereas mine uses {ja'e}.
>
> seja'e <http://vlasisku.lojban.org/vlasisku/seja%27e> = "... results 
> because of ..."
>
> ja'e <http://vlasisku.lojban.org/vlasisku/ja%27e> = "... resulting in ..."
>
> What comes before {se ja'e} is a result of what comes after {se ja'e}. 
> What comes before {ja'e} results in what comes after {ja'e}.
>  
>
>> So which more specific "therefore" would be used in the first answer's 
>> example?
>>
>> On Saturday, 3 November 2012 07:16:16 UTC, tijlan wrote:
>>
>>> On 2 November 2012 17:34, mudri <jammya...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>> > Can someone explain {ja'e} to me, and why I shouldn't use one of the 
>>> "because" modals in its place? 
>>>
>>> {ja'e} comes from {jalge}, which says that x1 is an outcome of x2, 
>>> without specifying the nature of "because". {ja'e ___} refers to the 
>>> consequence; use {se ja'e ___} for the antecedent. 
>>>
>>> {ri'a}, {mu'i}, {ki'u}, {ni'i} ... are more specific. Also their x1 & 
>>> x2 are the inverse of {ja'e}'s; it's {ri'a ___}, not {se ri'a ___}, 
>>> that refers to the antecedent. 
>>>
>>> You can replace {se ja'e} with a more specific modal: 
>>>
>>>   lo bloti cu spofu se ja'e lo nu janli 
>>>   The ship is broken, from (as a result of) the collision. 
>>>
>>>   lo bloti cu spofu ri'a lo nu janli 
>>>   The ship is broken, physically from (as a physical effect of) the 
>>> collision. 
>>>
>>>
>>> mu'o 
>>>
>>  -- 
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>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/R0l_p5vxoSAJ.
>>
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>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
>

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Your first answer gave no new information? By the title of the thread, I im=
plied that I knew that {ja'e} matched up to {seri'a}, {semu'i} and others.<=
br><br>On Saturday, 3 November 2012 10:30:52 UTC, aionys  wrote:<blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Nov 3,=
 2012 at 3:41 AM, mudri <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" targe=
t=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"q3xpyKM0dmMJ">jammya...@gmail.com</a>=
&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
These two replies are contradictory, though I'm more convinced by the secon=
d.</blockquote><div><br>No they aren't. His example is using {se ja'e}, whe=
reas mine uses {ja'e}.<br><br><a href=3D"http://vlasisku.lojban.org/vlasisk=
u/seja%27e" target=3D"_blank">seja'e</a> =3D "... results because of ..."<b=
r>
<br><a href=3D"http://vlasisku.lojban.org/vlasisku/ja%27e" target=3D"_blank=
">ja'e</a> =3D "... resulting in ..."<br><br>What comes before {se ja'e} is=
 a result of what comes after {se ja'e}. What comes before {ja'e} results i=
n what comes after {ja'e}.<br>
&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">So which more specific "therefor=
e" would be used in the first answer's example?<br><br>On Saturday, 3 Novem=
ber 2012 07:16:16 UTC, tijlan  wrote:<div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On 2 November 2012 17:34, mudri &lt=
;<a>jammya...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
<br>&gt; Can someone explain {ja'e} to me, and why I shouldn't use one of t=
he "because" modals in its place?
<br>
<br>{ja'e} comes from {jalge}, which says that x1 is an outcome of x2,
<br>without specifying the nature of "because". {ja'e ___} refers to the
<br>consequence; use {se ja'e ___} for the antecedent.
<br>
<br>{ri'a}, {mu'i}, {ki'u}, {ni'i} ... are more specific. Also their x1 &am=
p;
<br>x2 are the inverse of {ja'e}'s; it's {ri'a ___}, not {se ri'a ___},
<br>that refers to the antecedent.
<br>
<br>You can replace {se ja'e} with a more specific modal:
<br>
<br>&nbsp; lo bloti cu spofu se ja'e lo nu janli
<br>&nbsp; The ship is broken, from (as a result of) the collision.
<br>
<br>&nbsp; lo bloti cu spofu ri'a lo nu janli
<br>&nbsp; The ship is broken, physically from (as a physical effect of) th=
e collision.
<br>
<br>
<br>mu'o
<br></blockquote>

<p></p>

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<br>=20
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu'o mi'e .=
aionys.<br><br>.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu=
 do zo'o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<br>
<br>
</blockquote>

<p></p>

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