On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 4:43 AM, mudri <ja= mmyatjammy@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, 3 November 2012 10:30:= 52 UTC, aionys wrote:

On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 3:= 41 AM, mudri <jammya...@gmail.com> wr= ote:
These two replies are contradictory, though I'm more convinced by the s= econd.

No they aren't. His example is using {se ja= 'e}, whereas mine uses {ja'e}.

seja'e =3D "... = results because of ..."

ja'e =3D "... resulting in ..."

What comes befor= e {se ja'e} is a result of what comes after {se ja'e}. What comes b= efore {ja'e} results in what comes after {ja'e}.
=A0
= So which more specific "therefore" would be used in the first ans= wer's example?

On Saturday, 3 November 2012 07:16:16 UTC, tijlan wrote:

On 2 November 2012 17:34, mudri <= ;jammya...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can someone explain {ja'e} to me, and why I shouldn't use = one of the "because" modals in its place?

{ja'e} comes from {jalge}, which says that x1 is an outcome of x2,
without specifying the nature of "because". {ja'e ___} re= fers to the
consequence; use {se ja'e ___} for the antecedent.

{ri'a}, {mu'i}, {ki'u}, {ni'i} ... are more specific. A= lso their x1 &
x2 are the inverse of {ja'e}'s; it's {ri'a ___}, not {s= e ri'a ___},
that refers to the antecedent.

You can replace {se ja'e} with a more specific modal:

=A0 lo bloti cu spofu se ja'e lo nu janli
=A0 The ship is broken, from (as a result of) the collision.

=A0 lo bloti cu spofu ri'a lo nu janli
=A0 The ship is broken, physically from (as a physical effect of) the c= ollision.

mu'o

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mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pi= lno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! = Luke, I am your father. :D )

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