On= Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 6:28 AM, mudri <jammyatjammy@gmail.com>= ; wrote:

I understand what you were saying now. It was not contradictory - I'll = give you those points - but your example made {ja'e} sound distinct fro= m each of {semu'i}, {seri'a}, {seki'u} and {seni'i}.=A0So, = to finish this off, which of the previous 4 clusters could you substitute i= n for the {ja'e} in your sentence?

Going down the list, it is possible the following could also= be used:

sebai
segau
seki'u
seni'i
=A0

On Saturday, 3 November 2012 12:10:54 UTC, aionys wrote:
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 4:43 AM, mudri <jammya...@gm= ail.com> wrote:
Your first answer gave no new information? By the title of the thread, I im= plied that I knew that {ja'e} matched up to {seri'a}, {semu'i} = and others.

Still not contradictory to the other p= ost.

Regardless, {ja'e} is not a because. {seja'e} is, but that'= s not what you were asking. And the reason to use {seja'e} vs. anything= else is for the same reason to use nu vs. anything else- it's general.= Use the others if you want to be more specific, use {seja'e} if you do= n't.
=A0
On Saturday, 3 November 2012 10:30:= 52 UTC, aionys wrote:

On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 3:41 AM, mudri = <jammya...@gmail.com> wrote:
These two replies are contradictory, though I'm more convinced by the s= econd.

No they aren't. His example is using {se ja= 'e}, whereas mine uses {ja'e}.

seja'e =3D "... = results because of ..."

ja'e =3D "... resulting in ..."

What comes befor= e {se ja'e} is a result of what comes after {se ja'e}. What comes b= efore {ja'e} results in what comes after {ja'e}.
=A0
So which more= specific "therefore" would be used in the first answer's exa= mple?

On Saturday, 3 November 2012 07:16:16 UTC, tijlan wrote:

On 2 November 2012 17:34, mudri <= ;jammya...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can someone explain {ja'e} to me, and why I shouldn't use = one of the "because" modals in its place?

{ja'e} comes from {jalge}, which says that x1 is an outcome of x2,
without specifying the nature of "because". {ja'e ___} re= fers to the
consequence; use {se ja'e ___} for the antecedent.

{ri'a}, {mu'i}, {ki'u}, {ni'i} ... are more specific. A= lso their x1 &
x2 are the inverse of {ja'e}'s; it's {ri'a ___}, not {s= e ri'a ___},
that refers to the antecedent.

You can replace {se ja'e} with a more specific modal:

=A0 lo bloti cu spofu se ja'e lo nu janli
=A0 The ship is broken, from (as a result of) the collision.

=A0 lo bloti cu spofu ri'a lo nu janli
=A0 The ship is broken, physically from (as a physical effect of) the c= ollision.

mu'o

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.= google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/R0l_p5vxoSA= J.

=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com= .
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@g= ooglegroups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/<= u>group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

--
= mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa = bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am yo= ur father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.= google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/O95p52gJ1j8J.

=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com= .
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@g= ooglegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/<= u>group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.