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From: la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] "Should" and "would"
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I should add that Lojban follows one interesting principle of language 
planning called "facultative precision".

In short, 
1. if you remove words from a Lojbanic utterance you slowly lose precision. 
2. And vice versa, of course (by adding more words you prove that Lojban is 
the most precise language in the world, although, this second aspect of 
Lojban is unfortunately known much more than the 1st aspect).

So e.g. when you remove {da'i} the sentence becomes more vague but it *does 
not get the opposite or another meaning*.

The principle is described in the following article<http://www2.ling.su.se/staff/hartmut/griceil.htm>
.
No wonder they mention Loglan (however, they criticize it based on their 
subjective biased feelings).

On Friday, November 9, 2012 10:41:21 PM UTC+4, Michael Turniansky wrote:
>
>   I disagree that da'i is not needed below.  Without it, the sentence 
> reads "Since I am I chicken, there is no road crossing."
>           --gejyspa (12 days behind in email. I had brought it down to 9, 
> but have been busy at work.)
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 4:05 PM, selpa'i <m...@plasmatix.com <javascript:>
> > wrote:
>
>> Sometimes, the "would" appears together with an if-clause, in which case 
>> a {da'i} isn't always needed:
>>
>> mi va'o lo nu [da'i] mi jipci cu na kuckla lo dargu
>> If I was a chicken, I wouldn't cross the road.
>>
>> Here the {da'i} is not strictly needed, because the event tagged by va'o 
>> is not claimed by the speaker. The {da'i} can be used to add emphasis on 
>> the non-factualness of the sentence, however.
>>
>
>

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I should add that Lojban follows one interesting principle of language plan=
ning called "facultative precision".<div><br></div><div>In short,&nbsp;</di=
v><div>1. if you remove words from a Lojbanic utterance you slowly lose pre=
cision.&nbsp;</div><div>2. And vice versa, of course (by adding more words =
you prove that Lojban is the most precise language in the world, although, =
this second aspect of Lojban is unfortunately known much more than the 1st =
aspect).</div><div><br></div><div>So e.g. when you remove {da'i} the senten=
ce becomes more vague but it <b>does not get the opposite or another meanin=
g</b>.<br><br></div><div>The principle is described in the following <a hre=
f=3D"http://www2.ling.su.se/staff/hartmut/griceil.htm">article</a>.</div><d=
iv>No wonder they mention Loglan (however, they criticize it based on their=
 subjective biased feelings).<br></div><div><br></div><div>On Friday, Novem=
ber 9, 2012 10:41:21 PM UTC+4, Michael Turniansky wrote:<blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp; I disagree that da'i is=
 not needed below. &nbsp;Without it, the sentence reads "Since I am I chick=
en, there is no road crossing."<div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --ge=
jyspa (12 days behind in email. I had brought it down to 9, but have been b=
usy at work.)</div>

<div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 4:05 PM, se=
lpa'i <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-o=
bfuscated-mailto=3D"YfNReRPwou4J">m...@plasmatix.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<=
br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left=
:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div>Sometimes, the "would" appears together with an if-clause, in which ca=
se a {da'i} isn't always needed:<br>
<br>
mi va'o lo nu [da'i] mi jipci cu na kuckla lo dargu<br>
If I was a chicken, I wouldn't cross the road.<br>
<br>
Here the {da'i} is not strictly needed, because the event tagged by va'o is=
 not claimed by the speaker. The {da'i} can be used to add emphasis on the =
non-factualness of the sentence, however.</div></blockquote>

</div><br></div></div>
</blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
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