Received: from mail-gh0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]:53790) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Tc3do-0005Ap-5a; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 16:30:53 -0800 Received: by mail-gh0-f189.google.com with SMTP id f16sf1830597ghb.16 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 16:30:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:subject:references:from:x-mailer :in-reply-to:message-id:date:to:mime-version:x-virus-checked :x-goms-validated-recipients:x-gaggle-info:x-gaggle-sender-ref-id :x-gaggle-aps-scores:x-gaggle-ref-id:x-virus-checked :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=xELd6VkgtHXkEVQgqh5VeSJEo8aHX3/J1MPSOAOGZts=; b=YtmyvwjTUAqFz35P4jE22Ud+3oAi3+nnJLe8MIXTO4NdykUYxy6AO+sluUeCaqxAyo 3Fov5dhpqqDe/oe0XK7Cz0UspUHSyS8T+nrbRFMnUq8AmjyOargqLQZChQRwi6mSadIi dahxcWYPoQo8sXBMf65UbnTfKIxNK/E/vCeoC3SCmVW2k6bosVAjNEVdcyOfcd6LfzBO zWzNnTgXk8CQ9ISwMh+s6yHFjnHX78yfmbQm+jjWNhpFiQayczodfSygwD+sR0JsK9Ph fKAPMd82gQljXufEalfRNlISf9LDzFkDxWUSm4vZtAuWKyqfBnyE2uxBsJMAbKFQ3qJy AFMQ== Received: by 10.49.86.106 with SMTP id o10mr841116qez.14.1353717032324; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 16:30:32 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.26.73 with SMTP id j9ls561599qeg.41.gmail; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 16:30:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.236.78.199 with SMTP id g47mr3592992yhe.0.1353717031860; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 16:30:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.236.78.199 with SMTP id g47mr3592991yhe.0.1353717031844; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 16:30:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx3-out.gaggle.net (mx3-out.gaggle.net. [208.81.237.193]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id j11si295342ank.2.2012.11.23.16.30.30; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 16:30:31 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of park.annie@asb.gaggle.net designates 208.81.237.193 as permitted sender) client-ip=208.81.237.193; Received: (qmail 16759 invoked by uid 358); 24 Nov 2012 00:30:28 -0000 Received: from [10.0.32.2] (HELO mx4.gaggle.net) (10.0.32.2) by mx3.gaggle.net (qpsmtpd/0.83) with ESMTP; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 16:30:28 -0800 Received: from [98.81.86.234] (HELO [10.0.1.6]) (98.81.86.234) (smtp-auth username Park.Annie@asb.gaggle.net, mechanism plain) by mx4.gaggle.net (qpsmtpd/0.83) with ESMTPA; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 16:30:27 -0800 Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Question References: <461d8410-7da9-44ca-8714-33965aaf93ca@googlegroups.com> From: Annie X-Mailer: iPod Mail (10A523) In-Reply-To: <461d8410-7da9-44ca-8714-33965aaf93ca@googlegroups.com> Message-Id: Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 18:30:21 -0600 To: "lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on mx4.gaggle.net X-GOMS-Validated-Recipients: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Gaggle-Info: *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. X-Gaggle-Sender-Ref-ID: 4ba428aeedef92d17d5a7784fe3732b7d83c08430db114790479e355f45f4dc548984cf09b24a2d166ddbc9ed0ec104fabbe4f81370bfcd5781f957816d3137f X-Gaggle-APS-Scores: false -9.0 0 0 2 https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Fmsg%2Flojban-beginners%2F-%2F-zJpIwnUk9EJ null X-Gaggle-Ref-ID: 4ba428aeedef92d1006e95e74d6d7ef10eb5d64066b181e8 X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on mx3.gaggle.net X-Original-Sender: park.annie@asb.gaggle.net X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of park.annie@asb.gaggle.net designates 208.81.237.193 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=park.annie@asb.gaggle.net Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_67559_15169564.1353717027777" X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 1 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Since it's not really a letter, why would you want to capitalize the apostrophe? Sent from my iPod On Nov 23, 2012, at 6:20 PM, mudri <jammyatjammy@gmail.com> wrote: The curly braces are quotes for Lojban text within text of other languages. I'm not quite sure why they're used, but it's a kind of standard. For upper case apostrophe, I'll give the example of the name of selma'o {KOhA} (again, braces are "quotes"). It is derrived from {ko'a}. So, as 'K' is capital 'k', 'h' is capital apostrophe. On Saturday, 24 November 2012 00:14:36 UTC, Annie wrote: Are you saying that left-brace is sort of a letter? What do you mean by upper apostrophe, or whatever? Sent from my iPod On Nov 23, 2012, at 5:19 PM, mudri <<>jammya...@gmail.com> wrote: Just to add something, 'h' is the upper case version of the apostrophe (both called {.y'y.}). This really only ever occurs in selma'o names, though it is very common in these. It is called a "half letter" sometimes for various reasons. Matt explained how it only appears between vowels, and is unique in this respect (commas, if I remember correctly, can be used next to syllabic consonants - but that's unimportant). The apostrophe also has no effect on morphology: CVV and CV'V syllables behave identically (other than having different meanings). Finally, it is counted almost literally as half a letter in the lujvo scoring algorithm. "Something that acts as half a letter", I suppose someone thought, "should have 'half' a glyph, pe'a". On Sunday, 18 November 2012 22:50:10 UTC, Annie wrote: I found out that in Lojban, there's apparently no h. How is that so, when the apostrophe is practically the h? Sent from my iPod *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/-zJpIwnUk9EJ. To post to this [...] Content analysis details: (0.1 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid ------=_Part_67559_15169564.1353717027777 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Since it's not really a letter, why would you want to capitalize the apostr= ophe? Sent from my iPod On Nov 23, 2012, at 6:20 PM, mudri <jammyatjammy@gm= ail.com> wrote: The curly braces are quotes for Lojban text within text of other languages.= I'm not quite sure why they're used, but it's a kind of standard. For upper case apostrophe, I'll give the example of the name of selma'o {KO= hA} (again, braces are "quotes"). It is derrived from {ko'a}. So, as 'K' is= capital 'k', 'h' is capital apostrophe. On Saturday, 24 November 2012 00:14:36 UTC, Annie wrote: Are you saying that left-brace is sort of a letter? What do you mean by upp= er apostrophe, or whatever? Sent from my iPod On Nov 23, 2012, at 5:19 PM, mudri <<>jammya...@gmail.com> wrote: Just to add something, 'h' is the upper case version of the apostrophe (bot= h called {.y'y.}). This really only ever occurs in selma'o names, though it= is very common in these. It is called a "half letter" sometimes for various reasons. Matt explained = how it only appears between vowels, and is unique in this respect (commas, = if I remember correctly, can be used next to syllabic consonants - but that= 's unimportant). The apostrophe also has no effect on morphology: CVV and C= V'V syllables behave identically (other than having different meanings). Fi= nally, it is counted almost literally as half a letter in the lujvo scoring= algorithm. "Something that acts as half a letter", I suppose someone thoug= ht, "should have 'half' a glyph, pe'a". On Sunday, 18 November 2012 22:50:10 UTC, Annie wrote: I found out that in Lojban, there's apparently no h. How is that so, when t= he apostrophe is practically the h? Sent from my iPod *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-begin= ners/-/-zJpIwnUk9EJ. To post to this group, send email to<> lojban-b...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to<> lojban-beginne...@googlegro= ups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den= . *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-begin= ners/-/9XOwVTG6NqEJ. To post to this group, send email to loj= ban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den= . *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. ------=_Part_67559_15169564.1353717027777 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Since it's not really a letter, wh= y would you want to capitalize the apostrophe?

Sent from my iPod

On Nov 23, 2012, at 6:20 PM, mudri <jammyatjammy@gmail.com> wrote:

The curly braces are quotes for Lojban text within = text of other languages. I'm not quite sure why they're used, but it's a ki= nd of standard.

For upper case apostrophe, I'll give the= example of the name of selma'o {KOhA} (again, braces are "quotes"). It is = derrived from {ko'a}. So, as 'K' is capital 'k', 'h' is capital apostrophe.=

On Saturday, 24 November 2012 00:14:36 UTC, Annie wrote:
Are you saying th= at left-brace is sort of a letter? What do you mean by upper apostrophe, or= whatever? 

Sent from my iPod

On Nov 23, 2= 012, at 5:19 PM, mudri <jammya...@gmail.com> wrote:

=
Just to add something, 'h' is the uppe= r case version of the apostrophe (both called {.y'y.}). This really only ev= er occurs in selma'o names, though it is very common in these.

It is called a "half letter" sometimes for various reasons. Matt exp= lained how it only appears between vowels, and is unique in this respect (c= ommas, if I remember correctly, can be used next to syllabic consonants - b= ut that's unimportant). The apostrophe also has no effect on morphology: CV= V and CV'V syllables behave identically (other than having different meanin= gs). Finally, it is counted almost literally as half a letter in the lujvo = scoring algorithm. "Something that acts as half a letter", I suppose someon= e thought, "should have 'half' a glyph, pe'a".

On Sunday, 18 Novembe= r 2012 22:50:10 UTC, Annie wrote:
I found out that in Lojban, there's apparently no h. How is that so, when = the apostrophe is practically the h?

Sent from my iPod

*** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.= google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/-zJpIwnUk9EJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.co= m.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/<= wbr>group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.





*** This Email was sent by a s= tudent at School for the Blind.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/l= ojban-beginners/-/9XOwVTG6NqEJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginn= ers?hl=3Den.





*** This Email w= as sent by a student at School for the Blind.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
------=_Part_67559_15169564.1353717027777--