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[208.81.237.182]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id h50si546524yhi.3.2012.11.23.16.55.30; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 16:55:32 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of park.annie@asb.gaggle.net designates 208.81.237.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=208.81.237.182; Received: (qmail 32031 invoked by uid 358); 24 Nov 2012 00:55:29 -0000 Received: from [10.0.32.2] (HELO mx11.gaggle.net) (10.0.32.2) by mx2.gaggle.net (qpsmtpd/0.83) with ESMTP; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 16:55:29 -0800 Received: from [98.81.86.234] (HELO [10.0.1.6]) (98.81.86.234) (smtp-auth username Park.Annie@asb.gaggle.net, mechanism plain) by mx11.gaggle.net (qpsmtpd/0.83) with ESMTPA; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 16:55:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Question References: <461d8410-7da9-44ca-8714-33965aaf93ca@googlegroups.com> From: Annie X-Mailer: iPod Mail (10A523) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <86998A6C-7519-43EF-A477-80F8027CE9A9@asb.gaggle.net> Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 18:53:35 -0600 To: "lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on mx11.gaggle.net X-GOMS-Validated-Recipients: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Gaggle-Info: *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. X-Gaggle-Sender-Ref-ID: 4ba428aeedef92d1b737300a098d61d5a7c35e78253ba372c04caac3dbb9943e728c05941798dfefe7176a41e6d26d31abbe4f81370bfcd5781f957816d3137f X-Gaggle-APS-Scores: false -9.0 0 0 2 https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Fmsg%2Flojban-beginners%2F-%2F-zJpIwnUk9EJ null X-Gaggle-Ref-ID: 4ba428aeedef92d1fcd214fa007ceca2eadf691ebfe0b196 X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on mx2.gaggle.net X-Original-Sender: park.annie@asb.gaggle.net X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of park.annie@asb.gaggle.net designates 208.81.237.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=park.annie@asb.gaggle.net Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_64637_17963253.1353718528994" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_64637_17963253.1353718528994 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh, so you're saying I'm over my head right? What kind of basic conventions= ? Sent from my iPod On Nov 23, 2012, at 6:37 PM, mudri <jammyatjammy@gm= ail.com> wrote: Basically, so that it can be used in YACC. To appreciate that answer fully,= you'd need to know some basic conventions used in context-free grammar not= ation. On Saturday, 24 November 2012 00:30:33 UTC, Annie wrote: Since it's not really a letter, why would you want to capitalize the apostr= ophe? Sent from my iPod On Nov 23, 2012, at 6:20 PM, mudri <<>jammya...@gmail.com> wrote: The curly braces are quotes for Lojban text within text of other languages.= I'm not quite sure why they're used, but it's a kind of standard. For upper case apostrophe, I'll give the example of the name of selma'o {KO= hA} (again, braces are "quotes"). It is derrived from {ko'a}. So, as 'K' is= capital 'k', 'h' is capital apostrophe. On Saturday, 24 November 2012 00:14:36 UTC, Annie wrote: Are you saying that left-brace is sort of a letter? What do you mean by upp= er apostrophe, or whatever? Sent from my iPod On Nov 23, 2012, at 5:19 PM, mudri <<>jammya...@gmail.com> wrote: Just to add something, 'h' is the upper case version of the apostrophe (bot= h called {.y'y.}). This really only ever occurs in selma'o names, though it= is very common in these. It is called a "half letter" sometimes for various reasons. Matt explained = how it only appears between vowels, and is unique in this respect (commas, = if I remember correctly, can be used next to syllabic consonants - but that= 's unimportant). The apostrophe also has no effect on morphology: CVV and C= V'V syllables behave identically (other than having different meanings). Fi= nally, it is counted almost literally as half a letter in the lujvo scoring= algorithm. "Something that acts as half a letter", I suppose someone thoug= ht, "should have 'half' a glyph, pe'a". On Sunday, 18 November 2012 22:50:10 UTC, Annie wrote: I found out that in Lojban, there's apparently no h. How is that so, when t= he apostrophe is practically the h? Sent from my iPod *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-begin= ners/-/-zJpIwnUk9EJ. To post to this group, send email to<> lojban-b...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to<> lojban-beginne...@googlegro= ups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den= . *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-begin= ners/-/9XOwVTG6NqEJ. To post to this group, send email to<> lojban-b...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to<> lojban-beginne...@googlegro= ups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den= . *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-begin= ners/-/QtRV2fHf8cMJ. To post to this group, send email to loj= ban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den= . *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. ------=_Part_64637_17963253.1353718528994 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oh, so you're saying I'm over my h= ead right? What kind of basic conventions?

Sent from my iPod

On Nov 23, 2012, at 6:37 PM, mudri <jammyatjammy@gmail.com> wrote:

Basically, so that it can be used in YACC. To appreciat= e that answer fully, you'd need to know some basic conventions used in cont= ext-free grammar notation.
On Saturday, 24 November 2012 00:30:33 UTC, A= nnie wrote:
=
Since it's not really a letter, why would you want to capitalize the a= postrophe?

Sent from my iPod

On Nov 23, 2012, at 6:20 = PM, mudri <jammya...@gmail.com> wrote:

The curly braces are quotes for Lojban text within = text of other languages. I'm not quite sure why they're used, but it's a ki= nd of standard.

For upper case apostrophe, I'll give the= example of the name of selma'o {KOhA} (again, braces are "quotes"). It is = derrived from {ko'a}. So, as 'K' is capital 'k', 'h' is capital apostrophe.=

On Saturday, 24 November 2012 00:14:36 UTC, Annie wrote:
Are you saying that le= ft-brace is sort of a letter? What do you mean by upper apostrophe, or what= ever? 

Sent from my iPod

On Nov 23, 2012, = at 5:19 PM, mudri <jammya...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just to add something, 'h' is the upper case v= ersion of the apostrophe (both called {.y'y.}). This really only ever occur= s in selma'o names, though it is very common in these.

I= t is called a "half letter" sometimes for various reasons. Matt explained h= ow it only appears between vowels, and is unique in this respect (commas, i= f I remember correctly, can be used next to syllabic consonants - but that'= s unimportant). The apostrophe also has no effect on morphology: CVV and CV= 'V syllables behave identically (other than having different meanings). Fin= ally, it is counted almost literally as half a letter in the lujvo scoring = algorithm. "Something that acts as half a letter", I suppose someone though= t, "should have 'half' a glyph, pe'a".

On Sunday, 18 November 2012 2= 2:50:10 UTC, Annie wrote:
I found o= ut that in Lojban, there's apparently no h. How is that so, when the apostr= ophe is practically the h?

Sent from my iPod

*** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
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=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@goo= glegroups.com.
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