Received: from mail-vb0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]:60766) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TcNmC-0004HS-5u; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:00:55 -0800 Received: by mail-vb0-f61.google.com with SMTP id fs19sf4046071vbb.16 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:00:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=SeAiSuXFxrV3S5J9cZSQsU7hr2To70LrbyspLbRnfpE=; b=MMBeHg28bKNVr3urJkstlUKFO+8wLginf4yK7SKLxuK5Tc9qhIhvDvw/YgdSmxxZ3A +cl5oFNApR2+2/oedEsQubLNT1wT6+g3wNrE/wphngQEiq7qFy3sUcXnHPrdnvYkHP6T zBOj8l8al333qeQZ+b5jierIoob3OFLraH9fwu945WWOgqPB8LWv8nXSI/+y9Qgsfixw PBh/cZYPKQ+ysbgTVxbbAy/kn1JLTKi+DkNmAUMljYl4U3F4wfW4fTRXeJ8RnIvLu4Y3 vrzWv0wufZBX/+IlaCigfn/91XJooQUYpSzZDn04k1DTyfOzz/hzEBDobUfpylgCXIB5 7S2g== Received: by 10.50.12.169 with SMTP id z9mr3579075igb.1.1353794432946; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:00:32 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.158.131 with SMTP id wu3ls1868764igb.18.gmail; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:00:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.50.236.105 with SMTP id ut9mr6008536igc.3.1353794432405; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:00:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.50.236.105 with SMTP id ut9mr6008535igc.3.1353794432388; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:00:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ob0-f180.google.com (mail-ob0-f180.google.com [209.85.214.180]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ge7si971746igb.0.2012.11.24.14.00.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:00:32 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.180; Received: by mail-ob0-f180.google.com with SMTP id wd20so13849077obb.39 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:00:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.134.66 with SMTP id pi2mr6002488obb.42.1353794431984; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:00:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.94.71 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:00:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <41C793FE-DF9E-4814-82D9-353E740E390D@asb.gaggle.net> <0008395A-7118-4574-819E-2C5EDB2ED45F@asb.gaggle.net> <9027430.VGYknXV5XY@caracal> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 15:00:31 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Fullstop From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.180 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f83923b37a29c04cf44d4a5 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --e89a8f83923b37a29c04cf44d4a5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Annie wrote: > Why would you want to elide two words together like that, when you can > just space between them? > Firstly, it's not eliding. The pauses are required by the grammar of Lojban, and {na.e} takes one less character than {na .e}. Furthermore, not having the space serves to visually group the words together, subtly signalling to readers that the two words are linked. With {na.e}, for example, the {na} modifies the {.e}, and in fact, the {na} makes no sense without the {.e}, and the {.e} means something else entirely without the {na}. A .e B =3D A and B: "1 .e 1" =3D 1 A na.e B =3D !A and B, (not A) and B: "1 na.e 1" =3D "0 .e 1" =3D 0 A .enai B =3D A and !B, A and (not B): "1 .enai 1" =3D "1 .e 0" =3D 0 > Sent from my iPod > > On Nov 21, 2012, at 10:51 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > > > On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 13:18:39 Annie wrote: > >> All that makes since, the full stop separating one word from a word th= at > >> begins a vowel and all. However, I've seen it in the middle of words > >> before. What's that for? Sent from my iPod > > > > It's actually separating two words, but they're written run together. F= or > > example: > > > > la .kot.divu=E1r. na.e la .pyd. xazdo > > C=F4te d'Ivoire not-and Tibet Asian > > C=F4te d'Ivoire is not Asian, but Tibet is. > > > > "kot.divuar" is two words, but a single name. "na.e" is two words, but = a > > single conjunction, and the second word begins with a vowel. ("naje" is > also > > two words, and logically the same conjunction, but it connects a > different kind > > of phrase.) > > > > ta'e la .kot.divu=E1r. du la xantyde'i xaskoi > > > > Pierre > > -- > > li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du > > li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > > > > > > *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. --e89a8f83923b37a29c04cf44d4a5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Annie <park.annie@asb.gaggle.net> wrote:
Why would you want to elide two words together like that, when you can just= space between them?

Firstly, it's not eliding= . The pauses are required by the grammar of Lojban, and {na.e} takes one le= ss character than {na .e}. Furthermore, not having the space serves to visu= ally group the words together, subtly signalling to readers that the two wo= rds are linked. With {na.e}, for example, the {na} modifies the {.e}, and i= n fact, the {na} makes no sense without the {.e}, and the {.e} means someth= ing else entirely without the {na}.

A .e B =3D A and B: "1 .e 1" =3D 1
A na.e B =3D !A and B, = (not A) and B: "1 na.e 1" =3D "0 .e 1" =3D 0
A .enai= B =3D A and !B, A and (not B): "1 .enai 1" =3D "1 .e 0"= ; =3D 0
=A0
Sent from my iPod

On Nov 21, 2012, at 10:51 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org> wrote:

> On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 13:18:39 Annie wrote:
>> All that makes since, the full stop separating one word from a wor= d that
>> begins a vowel and all. However, I've seen it in the middle of= words
>> before. What's that for? Sent from my iPod
>
> It's actually separating two words, but they're written run to= gether. For
> example:
>
> la .kot.divu=E1r. na.e la .pyd. xazdo
> C=F4te d'Ivoire not-and Tibet Asian
> C=F4te d'Ivoire is not Asian, but Tibet is.
>
> "kot.divuar" is two words, but a single name. "na.e&quo= t; is two words, but a
> single conjunction, and the second word begins with a vowel. ("na= je" is also
> two words, and logically the same conjunction, but it connects a diffe= rent kind
> of phrase.)
>
> ta'e la .kot.divu=E1r. du la xantyde'i xaskoi
>
> Pierre
> --
> li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du
> li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@goo= glegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.= com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
>
>


*** This Email was sent by a student a= t School for the Blind.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.




--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
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