Received: from mail-vb0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]:59968) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TcQ45-0005Mb-M4; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:27:22 -0800 Received: by mail-vb0-f61.google.com with SMTP id fs19sf4081101vbb.16 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:27:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=oQ9vMb3mlXxDh299qdXAW3F3TfjiZwe5kYIz5YE0qYY=; b=tUNYMVBsVZde556dO+1W4H/aqtUQv2Az0UE9lW13rSG6rFmEUwnogxNCO0CYyhOXj7 jYLTP95rKfATHQkk4xsLwWXd//G5+xRB0Eo94qzMN0dHzgEg4b9OeTqfx+N4uKFy4fI9 wHFzAL/mw759Os0xS/t7OGuKJVEs7GyUWdPjBgEOesFH+aaVtqWhDn2907P2FSkBG+9P WdnbeA8rTm9aMLhX5isAjZtQCHIiyi/66C+Gitk13fi1mIf10a45IOiiBNTO+XvWdgfM aORi7TxhoUfc1CCWHRtxZBvcy6XlDRoFBQYc2s2stG6n4c5+rTsvZO70njvNWRT6HKR5 yk8w== Received: by 10.50.169.7 with SMTP id aa7mr3577502igc.2.1353803230807; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:27:10 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.89.202 with SMTP id bq10ls2045739igb.34.canary; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:27:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.43.49.195 with SMTP id vb3mr5447291icb.24.1353803230221; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:27:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.43.49.195 with SMTP id vb3mr5447290icb.24.1353803230201; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:27:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oa0-f48.google.com (mail-oa0-f48.google.com [209.85.219.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o7si999523igl.0.2012.11.24.16.27.10 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:27:10 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.48 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.219.48; Received: by mail-oa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id h2so13018699oag.21 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:27:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.8.68 with SMTP id p4mr6044093oea.7.1353803229854; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:27:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.94.71 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:27:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <43530517-2bea-4234-911c-46532135347a@e25g2000vbm.googlegroups.com> References: <67d99907-4a24-4a62-8375-ca38bca9d13f@googlegroups.com> <6d0543ad-85f1-4bf1-a2d2-1dd6ce37e8c3@n8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> <1410965.0A3Eqz1JoD@caracal> <43530517-2bea-4234-911c-46532135347a@e25g2000vbm.googlegroups.com> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 17:27:09 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: ma xe fanva zoi gy Countless stars were twinkling in the sky gy From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.48 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1c6ea9c7bd704cf46e044 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --e89a8ff1c6ea9c7bd704cf46e044 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 2:53 PM, ianek wrote: > It isn't infinite, but I used {ci'i} as a hyperbole. Maybe {so'iso'i} > or something would be good, but it doesn't sound very serious. BTW, > {so'e} and {so'a} are defined as 'most' and 'almost all', but it > doesn't make much sense since 1. they fit in the {so'V} sequence of > imprecise numerals and the other three do not refer to being a part of > something, 2. there are compounds {piso'e} and {piso'a} and they mean > 'most of' and 'almost all of', which for me is the same. > > What I mean is: the sequence is decrementing imprecise numerals: > {so'a}, {so'e}, {so'i}, {so'o}, {so'u}. But if translated according to > definitions in jbovlaste, they don't work like that: "many stars" may > mean arbitrarily many stars, while "most stars" would mean that > there's some set of stars and we're talking about a majority of them. > Completely other thing. And if we want to say that, we might as well > use {piso'e}: "most of the stars" and it would mean the same. So, as > for me, {so'e} and {so'a}, as defined in jbovlaste, are inconsistent > with the rest of this series. > > I may be, and probably am very wrong about all this, but there goes my > rant. I'd like to be able to use {so'e tarci} for 'lots of stars' and > {so'a tarci} for 'uncountable stars'. Only that I'm not sure why > "decimal point lots" would then mean "most", ie. more than half. Oh > well. > It's more that the English definitions of the words are flawed: ro > so'a > so'e > so'i > so'o > so'u > no pa > piso'a > piso'e > piso'i >piso'o > piso'i > no piso'e > pimu > piso'o Because these numbers are imprecise, it's obviously not possible to give specific numeric inequalities to them beyond the above, and even then, there may be cases where two or more overlap with each other. > mu'o mi'e ianek > > On 24 Lis, 22:12, Pierre Abbat wrote: > > On Saturday, November 24, 2012 11:26:33 ianek wrote: > > > I'd try to translate it as {ci'i tarci pu carmi bu'u lo tsani}, but I > > > may be very wrong. There's no simple word for twinkle, flicker or > > > blink. > > > > I'd say {kliniota} for "blink", but that probably wouldn't be understoo= d > by a > > non-French-speaker. A possible word for "twinkle" is {camdesku}. > > > > The number of stars isn't infinite, it's just too many for humans to > count. You > > could say {ni'e bacterkancu}, but that's a bit long. > > > > Pierre > > -- > > When a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates. > > J=E1 n=E3o percebe nada, j=E1 n=E3o percebe nada. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. --e89a8ff1c6ea9c7bd704cf46e044 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 2:53 PM, ianek <janek37= @gmail.com> wrote:
It isn't infinite, but I used {ci'i} as a hyperbole. Maybe {so'= iso'i}
or something would be good, but it doesn't sound very serious. BTW,
{so'e} and {so'a} are defined as 'most' and 'almost all= ', but it
doesn't make much sense since 1. they fit in the {so'V} sequence of=
imprecise numerals and the other three do not refer to being a part of
something, 2. there are compounds {piso'e} and {piso'a} and they me= an
'most of' and 'almost all of', which for me is the same.
What I mean is: the sequence is decrementing imprecise numerals:
{so'a}, {so'e}, {so'i}, {so'o}, {so'u}. But if translat= ed according to
definitions in jbovlaste, they don't work like that: "many stars&q= uot; may
mean arbitrarily many stars, while "most stars" would mean that there's some set of stars and we're talking about a majority of the= m.
Completely other thing. And if we want to say that, we might as well
use {piso'e}: "most of the stars" and it would mean the same.= So, as
for me, {so'e} and {so'a}, as defined in jbovlaste, are inconsisten= t
with the rest of this series.

I may be, and probably am very wrong about all this, but there goes my
rant. I'd like to be able to use {so'e tarci} for 'lots of star= s' and
{so'a tarci} for 'uncountable stars'. Only that I'm not sur= e why
"decimal point lots" would then mean "most", ie. more t= han half. Oh
well.

It's more that the English definitions o= f the words are flawed:

ro > so'a > so'e > so'i= > so'o > so'u > no

pa > piso'a > piso= 9;e > piso'i >piso'o > piso'i > no

piso'e > pimu > piso'o

Because these numbers are i= mprecise, it's obviously not possible to give specific numeric inequali= ties to them beyond the above, and even then, there may be cases where two = or more overlap with each other.
=A0
mu'o mi'e ianek

On 24 Lis, 22:12, Pierre Abba= t <p...@bezitopo.org> wrote:=
> On Saturday, November 24, 2012 11:26:33 ianek wrote:
> > I'd try to translate it as {ci'i tarci pu carmi bu'u = lo tsani}, but I
> > may be very wrong. There's no simple word for twinkle, flicke= r or
> > blink.
>
> I'd say {kliniota} for "blink", but that probably wouldn= 't be understood by a
> non-French-speaker. A possible word for "twinkle" is {camdes= ku}.
>
> The number of stars isn't infinite, it's just too many for hum= ans to count. You
> could say {ni'e bacterkancu}, but that's a bit long.
>
> Pierre
> --
> When a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates.
> J=E1 n=E3o percebe nada, j=E1 n=E3o percebe nada.

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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.




--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
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