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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Possessives
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 Content preview:  How does {se / te / ve / xe} affect {vo'a}? For example, let's
    say in your sentence, we use {se prami}, and move some stuff around. Which
    is correct? "lo ponse be vo'e cu se prami lo mlatu poi vo'a citkygau" or
   "lo ponse be vo'a cu se prami lo mlatu poi vo'e citkygau" or something else?
    [...] 
 
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How does {se / te / ve / xe} affect {vo'a}?
For example, let's say in your sentence, we use {se prami}, and move some 
stuff around.

Which is correct?

"lo ponse be vo'e cu se prami lo mlatu poi vo'a citkygau" 
      or
"lo ponse be vo'a cu se prami lo mlatu poi vo'e citkygau" 
     or
something else?

I guess my question boils down to "Does {se/te/ve/xe} change that which is 
called x1?  Or is x1 always equal to the lover as opposed to the one being 
loved, even after {se} is applied?"
My guess is that the first one is right.  But the documentation seems 
inconsistent on this point.  (does {se} switch what is called x1 and what 
is called x2, or does it just put x2 in the first place and put x1 in the 
second place?)


On Thursday, November 29, 2012 12:42:58 PM UTC-5, Michael Turniansky wrote:
>
>   vo'a means "the thing that is the first sumti (argument),  in the main 
> bridi in this sentence  (That is, "x1")"  (vo'e means the second, and so 
> forth).  So for example, a sentence like "lo mlatu poi vo'e citkygau cu 
> prami lo ponse be vo'a" means "A cat which is fed by its owner loves them" 
> (but more literally, it means "a cat which the second thing in this 
> sentence feeds loves the owner of the first thing in this sentence")  There 
> are many other ways to say this of course, but this is just for example.  
>
>           --gejyspa
>
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Annie <park....@asb.gaggle.net<javascript:>
> > wrote:
>
>> What does vo'a mean?
>>
>> Sent from my iPod
>>
>> On Nov 27, 2012, at 11:16 PM, Pierre Abbat <ph...@bezitopo.org<javascript:>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 18:35:18 Michael Turniansky wrote:
>> >>  Which does bring in an interesting philosophic question (which maybe
>> >> Annie was alluding to): If you used vo'a in that sentence, what would 
>> it
>> >> refer to? la djan? le bruna be la lizbet (which is what I assume you 
>> meant
>> >> to write, not "brata") or both? ("fa la djan. klama le ckule fa le 
>> bruna pe
>> >> la lizbet. lo zdani be vo'a")  But that's outside the scope of a 
>> beginner's
>> >> list.
>> >
>> > Yes of course "bruna". "brata" is Tok Pisin. I consider the referent of 
>> "vo'a"
>> > in that sentence unclear.
>> >
>> > Pierre
>> > --
>> > ve ka'a ro klaji la .romas. se jmaji
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
>> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>
>> .
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>> lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
>> > For more options, visit this group at 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
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>>
>

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How does {se / te / ve / xe} affect {vo'a}?<br>For example, let's say in yo=
ur sentence, we use {se prami}, and move some stuff around.<br><br>Which is=
 correct?<br><br> "lo ponse be vo'e cu se prami lo mlatu poi vo'a citkygau"=
 <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; or<br>"lo ponse be vo'a cu se prami lo =
mlatu poi vo'e citkygau" <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; or<br>something else?=
<br><br>I guess my question boils down to "Does {se/te/ve/xe} change that w=
hich is called x1?&nbsp; Or is x1 always equal to the lover as opposed to t=
he one being loved, even after {se} is applied?"<br>My guess is that the fi=
rst one is right.&nbsp; But the documentation seems inconsistent on this po=
int.&nbsp; (does {se} switch what is called x1 and what is called x2, or do=
es it just put x2 in the first place and put x1 in the second place?)<br><b=
r><br>On Thursday, November 29, 2012 12:42:58 PM UTC-5, Michael Turniansky =
wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8=
ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp; =
vo'a means "the thing that is the first sumti (argument), &nbsp;in the main=
 bridi in this sentence&nbsp;&nbsp;(That is, "x1")"&nbsp; (vo'e means the s=
econd, and so forth). &nbsp;So for example, a sentence like "lo mlatu poi v=
o'e citkygau cu prami lo ponse be vo'a" means "A cat which is fed by its ow=
ner loves them" (but more literally, it means "a cat which the second thing=
 in this sentence feeds loves the owner of the first thing in this sentence=
") &nbsp;There are many other ways to say this of course, but this is&nbsp;=
just&nbsp;for example. &nbsp;<br>
<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --gejyspa<div><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote">On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Annie <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a h=
ref=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"mtflzZiyVGcJ=
">park....@asb.gaggle.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">What does vo'a mean?<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPod<br>
<div><div><br>
On Nov 27, 2012, at 11:16 PM, Pierre Abbat &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" targ=
et=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"mtflzZiyVGcJ">ph...@bezitopo.org</a>=
&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 18:35:18 Michael Turniansky wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp;Which does bring in an interesting philosophic question (whi=
ch maybe<br>
&gt;&gt; Annie was alluding to): If you used vo'a in that sentence, what wo=
uld it<br>
&gt;&gt; refer to? la djan? le bruna be la lizbet (which is what I assume y=
ou meant<br>
&gt;&gt; to write, not "brata") or both? ("fa la djan. klama le ckule fa le=
 bruna pe<br>
&gt;&gt; la lizbet. lo zdani be vo'a") &nbsp;But that's outside the scope o=
f a beginner's<br>
&gt;&gt; list.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Yes of course "bruna". "brata" is Tok Pisin. I consider the referent o=
f "vo'a"<br>
&gt; in that sentence unclear.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Pierre<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; ve ka'a ro klaji la .romas. se jmaji<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro=
ups "Lojban Beginners" group.<br>
&gt; To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D=
"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"mtflzZiyVGcJ">lojban-b...@googlegroups.<w=
br>com</a>.<br>
&gt; To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"javascript:" =
target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"mtflzZiyVGcJ">lojban-beginne...@=
<wbr>googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
&gt; For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.=
com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.=
com/<wbr>group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div><div>*** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Bli=
nd.<br>
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</div><div><div>--<br>
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<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
</blockquote>

<p></p>

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