Received: from mail-ia0-f189.google.com ([209.85.210.189]:53735) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Tf3O7-0000B2-EW; Sat, 01 Dec 2012 22:50:59 -0800 Received: by mail-ia0-f189.google.com with SMTP id b35sf1683894iac.16 for ; Sat, 01 Dec 2012 22:50:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=ig5osPA4yQtvv9Jb8UVYhjb1612aWBvEBMPTOQwross=; b=JCX2gxuLFA0HU9aVj/8SR4mE3PsjDRQNlH+T8WZontfUGj8pnJ5UC8Ndzy8E2YF4GF oLmy/1QK6cseCFqe2I4ikLJLsLNFSl986JllilqknY9n0vlH/C6xICx5CTgturshRFB6 8R/tDyIrrdLyLYTT7rZyfLrKwEPHn8RxiR2rkEuDbF2ZV4mukgqGXHJLn6PIlBdJy32F oVTK3r9Kt+xO/VH0JdaRJW/YAgwdc3h8VSgRZRKwt36INRa3VoT8wGQB18Q1Z0Msx3SN A6366EJU/ob0R4oG0zDGIVqbC7v8z26aOdjtTbENHdnMs2oLjYRsOIJLsn9RZ09pjs5w sDrw== Received: by 10.49.94.99 with SMTP id db3mr1463582qeb.2.1354431044466; Sat, 01 Dec 2012 22:50:44 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.98.103 with SMTP id eh7ls1273346qeb.24.gmail; Sat, 01 Dec 2012 22:50:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.59.5.193 with SMTP id co1mr2010310ved.37.1354431043152; Sat, 01 Dec 2012 22:50:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.59.5.193 with SMTP id co1mr2010309ved.37.1354431043135; Sat, 01 Dec 2012 22:50:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vc0-f171.google.com (mail-vc0-f171.google.com [209.85.220.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id es5si2922532vdb.2.2012.12.01.22.50.43 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 01 Dec 2012 22:50:43 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.171; Received: by mail-vc0-f171.google.com with SMTP id n11so1179828vch.30 for ; Sat, 01 Dec 2012 22:50:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.58.168.135 with SMTP id zw7mr5557816veb.4.1354431043031; Sat, 01 Dec 2012 22:50:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.196.89 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Dec 2012 22:50:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <3c1628ec-40a0-41fd-90a9-65e110d9ab0a@googlegroups.com> References: <33272af0-7522-44d7-a040-e451bf851595@googlegroups.com> <3c1628ec-40a0-41fd-90a9-65e110d9ab0a@googlegroups.com> Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 23:50:42 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Why no "about" brivla? From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b6784943152aa04cfd90de0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --047d7b6784943152aa04cfd90de0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:09 PM, la gleki wrote: > On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:30:39 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote: >> >> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6:17 AM, tijlan wrote: >> >> On 1 December 2012 12:09, ianek wrote: >>> > This is just what {se srana} or {selra'a} is. >>> >>> An about, a thematic focus, is more specific than that. cfika2, for >>> instance, may be as much relevant to cfika1 as cfika3 may be -- a work >>> of fiction cu srana both its plot and its author (and possibly many >>> other things). Consider: >>> >>> la .alis. cfika sera'a lo nixli >>> >>> This doesn't necessarily say that the plot revolves around a girl -- >>> it could as well be saying the work is dedicated to a girl. >>> >> >> I'm sorry, I don't see how anything based on {srana} could possibly mean >> "dedicated to". You'll have to explain. >> > > Well, may be it's not that something is wrong with {sera'a/pe/srana} but > rather wrong usage and/or glossing. > > *srana x1 pertains to/is germane/relevant to/concerns/is > related/associated with/is about x2.* > *ckini x1 is related to/associated with/akin to x2 by relationship x3.* > > If we arbitrarily chose parts of those definitions we'd get > * srana x1 is relevant to x2 > ckini x1 is relevant to x2 > * > which is nonsense. > ckini wouldn't be that. For one thing, you left out the x3, and for another, it isn't "relevant", it's "related". The Cold War isn't relevant to WWII, but it is related (by being a direct result of it). > If {srana} really gives us thematic role then all the other "is relevant > to" meanings can be assigned to {ckini/seki'i}. > > > >> >>> mu'o >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.**com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@** >>> googlegroups.com. >>> >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>> group/lojban-beginners?hl=en >>> . >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/Nur4CHZZaiAJ. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --047d7b6784943152aa04cfd90de0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:09 PM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:30:39 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6= :17 AM, tijlan <jbot...@gmail.com> wr= ote:

On 1 December 2012 12:09, ianek <jan...@gmail.com> wrote:=
> This is just what {se srana} or {selra'a} is.

An about, a thematic focus, is more specific than that. cfika2, for instance, may be as much relevant to cfika1 as cfika3 may be -- a work
of fiction cu srana both its plot and its author (and possibly many
other things). Consider:

la .alis. cfika sera'a lo nixli

This doesn't necessarily say that the plot revolves around a girl -- it could as well be saying the work is dedicated to a girl.

I'm sorry, I don't see how anything based on {srana} coul= d possibly mean "dedicated to". You'll have to explain.

Well, may be it's no= t that something is wrong with {sera'a/pe/srana} but rather wrong usage= and/or glossing.

srana=A0x1 pertains to/is ger= mane/relevant to/concerns/is related/associated with/is about x2.
ckini =A0x1 is related to/associated with/akin to x2 by relationshi= p x3.

If we arbitrarily chose parts of those d= efinitions we'd get
=A0 srana x1 is relevant to x2
=A0 ckini = =A0x1 is relevant to x2
which is nonsense.

ckini wouldn&#= 39;t be that. For one thing, you left out the x3, and for another, it isn&#= 39;t "relevant", it's "related". The Cold War isn&#= 39;t relevant to WWII, but it is related (by being a direct result of it).<= br> =A0
If {srana} really g= ives us thematic role then all the other "is relevant to" meaning= s can be assigned to {ckini/seki'i}.


=A0
mu'o

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com= .
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@g= ooglegroups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/<= u>group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.




--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pi= lno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! = Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.= google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/Nur4CHZZaiAJ.
=

=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--047d7b6784943152aa04cfd90de0--