Received: from mail-vb0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]:47315)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncBDA4JGNARYDBBRXV5OCQKGQE7YFQJEQ@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1Tf3QE-0000C5-R3; Sat, 01 Dec 2012 22:53:10 -0800
Received: by mail-vb0-f61.google.com with SMTP id fs19sf818860vbb.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Sat, 01 Dec 2012 22:52:56 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
         :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=mWbVGze5FWH6EAYhOfZtr+miiu2P3Qd6sdok0sWFpO4=;
        b=mp6YTS0HF04Ko8Q1QU/gXoLfatcD2CK/FzScm+vfP5c5tPUqPWe7nJDAUXXh9VJ6Ml
         npq/Vm+9xClDwseaBAadcQyYU49BD8QD2uYc+/FVDijTt4hG8QuH+pQY8TYUQAGbnZyM
         LX6QJkWOoXeb2UJSsxq+uixBnNr86nRI0wO6RdzpgMTFhSOclJYIlR2SOIFsIoNIJakf
         UkchC87WjCTEv5cH9PP82L2YZaRo5EIKudZVTLYI3ewMAGWzGCkgT3wnEHXHEPWAvcwj
         4gs+NFdqReWY/9ed+irLjOaxxJT2G55zikp+ppM4y302z0hJwSbjQJGTIlocdwh+O5Eg
         yqXg==
Received: by 10.49.87.9 with SMTP id t9mr1531324qez.16.1354431174814;
        Sat, 01 Dec 2012 22:52:54 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.49.24.37 with SMTP id r5ls1190326qef.85.gmail; Sat, 01 Dec
 2012 22:52:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.52.30.134 with SMTP id s6mr1909021vdh.0.1354431174467;
        Sat, 01 Dec 2012 22:52:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.52.30.134 with SMTP id s6mr1909020vdh.0.1354431174447;
        Sat, 01 Dec 2012 22:52:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-vc0-f180.google.com (mail-vc0-f180.google.com [209.85.220.180])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q13si2046942vdh.0.2012.12.01.22.52.54
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Sat, 01 Dec 2012 22:52:54 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.180;
Received: by mail-vc0-f180.google.com with SMTP id p16so881818vcq.11
        for <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>; Sat, 01 Dec 2012 22:52:54 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.221.2.69 with SMTP id nt5mr5411232vcb.68.1354431174334; Sat,
 01 Dec 2012 22:52:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.220.196.89 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Dec 2012 22:52:54 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <CAMKwHj2vkUd4HLB5ZETwtjF00Oo71QierOn6wVv9c86=26r-fQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <33272af0-7522-44d7-a040-e451bf851595@googlegroups.com>
	<e671ce93-c8c9-482c-a7b6-4fb584a86972@a15g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	<CAPAJj9L4v_0jHO2BZj81AanB4w4YN0P=yfoBHuExJXmxryjPUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj3a1+VaNV48ExXL5TWmDB+6wPFwPb=wQ0sLt=kw43+hyw@mail.gmail.com>
	<3c1628ec-40a0-41fd-90a9-65e110d9ab0a@googlegroups.com>
	<CAMKwHj2vkUd4HLB5ZETwtjF00Oo71QierOn6wVv9c86=26r-fQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 23:52:54 -0700
Message-ID: <CAMKwHj03zoA1zB01tpGmK=DcnUXRVGkisPsb2J8x8Va4JdTOxw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Why no "about" brivla?
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.180 as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:googlegroups-manage+300742228892+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba211fbf04d71204cfd915b3
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Spam_score: 0.0
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /

--90e6ba211fbf04d71204cfd915b3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:50 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:09 PM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:30:39 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6:17 AM, tijlan <jbot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 1 December 2012 12:09, ianek <jan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > This is just what {se srana} or {selra'a} is.
>>>>
>>>> An about, a thematic focus, is more specific than that. cfika2, for
>>>> instance, may be as much relevant to cfika1 as cfika3 may be -- a work
>>>> of fiction cu srana both its plot and its author (and possibly many
>>>> other things). Consider:
>>>>
>>>> la .alis. cfika sera'a lo nixli
>>>>
>>>> This doesn't necessarily say that the plot revolves around a girl --
>>>> it could as well be saying the work is dedicated to a girl.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm sorry, I don't see how anything based on {srana} could possibly mean
>>> "dedicated to". You'll have to explain.
>>>
>>
>> Well, may be it's not that something is wrong with {sera'a/pe/srana} but
>> rather wrong usage and/or glossing.
>>
>> *srana x1 pertains to/is germane/relevant to/concerns/is
>> related/associated with/is about x2.*
>> *ckini  x1 is related to/associated with/akin to x2 by relationship x3.*
>>
>> If we arbitrarily chose parts of those definitions we'd get
>> *  srana x1 is relevant to x2
>>   ckini  x1 is relevant to x2
>> *
>> which is nonsense.
>>
>
> ckini wouldn't be that. For one thing, you left out the x3, and for
> another, it isn't "relevant", it's "related". The Cold War isn't relevant
> to WWII, but it is related (by being a direct result of it).
>
>
>> If {srana} really gives us thematic role then all the other "is relevant
>> to" meanings can be assigned to {ckini/seki'i}.
>>
>
Furthermore, your response does not show how one can get "dedicated to" out
of srana.

-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.


--90e6ba211fbf04d71204cfd915b3
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:50 PM, Jonathan Jones =
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank=
">eyeonus@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im">On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:09 P=
M, la gleki <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.=
com" target=3D"_blank">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:30:39 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:<blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6=
:17 AM, tijlan <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a>jbot...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wr=
ote:<div>

<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-lef=
t:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>On 1 December 2012 12:09, ianek &lt;<a>jan...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:=
<br>
&gt; This is just what {se srana} or {selra&#39;a} is.<br>
<br>
</div>An about, a thematic focus, is more specific than that. cfika2, for<b=
r>
instance, may be as much relevant to cfika1 as cfika3 may be -- a work<br>
of fiction cu srana both its plot and its author (and possibly many<br>
other things). Consider:<br>
<br>
la .alis. cfika sera&#39;a lo nixli<br>
<br>
This doesn&#39;t necessarily say that the plot revolves around a girl --<br=
>
it could as well be saying the work is dedicated to a girl.<br></blockquote=
><div><br>I&#39;m sorry, I don&#39;t see how anything based on {srana} coul=
d possibly mean &quot;dedicated to&quot;. You&#39;ll have to explain.<br>

</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Well, may be it&#39;s no=
t that something is wrong with {sera&#39;a/pe/srana} but rather wrong usage=
 and/or glossing.</div><div><br></div><div><i>srana=A0x1 pertains to/is ger=
mane/relevant to/concerns/is related/associated with<b>/is about x2</b>.</i=
></div>

<div><i>ckini =A0x1 is related to/associated with/akin to x2 by relationshi=
p x3.</i></div><div><br></div><div>If we arbitrarily chose parts of those d=
efinitions we&#39;d get<br><i>=A0 srana x1 is relevant to x2<br>=A0 ckini =
=A0x1 is relevant to x2<br>

</i></div><div>which is nonsense.</div></blockquote></div><div><br>ckini wo=
uldn&#39;t be that. For one thing, you left out the x3, and for another, it=
 isn&#39;t &quot;relevant&quot;, it&#39;s &quot;related&quot;. The Cold War=
 isn&#39;t relevant to WWII, but it is related (by being a direct result of=
 it).<br>

=A0</div><div class=3D"im"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div></div><div>I=
f {srana} really gives us thematic role then all the other &quot;is relevan=
t to&quot; meanings can be assigned to {ckini/seki&#39;i}.</div>
</blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D"h5"><br></div></div>Fur=
thermore, your response does not show how one can get &quot;dedicated to&qu=
ot; out of srana.<br><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;=
ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<br><br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />



--90e6ba211fbf04d71204cfd915b3--