Received: from mail-yh0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]:49063)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncBCRZPH6MCMIKP6PLQUCRUBEAZ7IFM@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1Tf3Xy-0000Dt-QP; Sat, 01 Dec 2012 23:01:09 -0800
Received: by mail-yh0-f61.google.com with SMTP id o21sf828286yho.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Sat, 01 Dec 2012 23:00:56 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject
         :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=vQQtbKdnoV/Mmhsg9Ct2elbC8vo2ld6L4nmQLLkyYos=;
        b=LdJjolFoZq5j4GwyT8hpzI7efd16c8ue0Tmkj6LdkXrwBeVVw9WyUnkYcXGgydsvyu
         3ewM7se7LbwCRlB4R1GxDCPTWvbZyybf4GD2XU0DQKju/miuQg8jLiF7KipgE9kEh4Jw
         bHvKNavrzgu/F5E0clXTxOIMZk0zhWG3BfjVflXUrooUpmKJAVBkQgBN69mPFi1/iTGW
         Y9kf/wM1yxF0QecvxGnVK/Bk7T/wu6JMPtrq6+fvDDUja8TiHmIZYPWTPVwY8NBKPeC6
         CYov3iPJ9zCfaW3ZRT8v5GkGRnw7R/3SZnCBreZFR0Q1/VF5qP/NIJXpO2t8SkO1x3u7
         FzWw==
Received: by 10.49.116.34 with SMTP id jt2mr1519988qeb.38.1354431656256;
        Sat, 01 Dec 2012 23:00:56 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.49.18.230 with SMTP id z6ls1156524qed.6.gmail; Sat, 01 Dec
 2012 23:00:55 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.49.35.77 with SMTP id f13mr1535339qej.4.1354431655675;
        Sat, 01 Dec 2012 23:00:55 -0800 (PST)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 23:00:55 -0800 (PST)
From: la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Message-Id: <cb28c2f6-2d28-49a0-9fe9-09611faa7cb8@googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAMKwHj2vkUd4HLB5ZETwtjF00Oo71QierOn6wVv9c86=26r-fQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <33272af0-7522-44d7-a040-e451bf851595@googlegroups.com>
 <e671ce93-c8c9-482c-a7b6-4fb584a86972@a15g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
 <CAPAJj9L4v_0jHO2BZj81AanB4w4YN0P=yfoBHuExJXmxryjPUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMKwHj3a1+VaNV48ExXL5TWmDB+6wPFwPb=wQ0sLt=kw43+hyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <3c1628ec-40a0-41fd-90a9-65e110d9ab0a@googlegroups.com>
 <CAMKwHj2vkUd4HLB5ZETwtjF00Oo71QierOn6wVv9c86=26r-fQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Why no "about" brivla?
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:googlegroups-manage+300742228892+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
	boundary="----=_Part_53_19989424.1354431655218"
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Spam_score: 0.0
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /

------=_Part_53_19989424.1354431655218
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1



On Sunday, December 2, 2012 10:50:42 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
>
> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:09 PM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com<javascript:>
> > wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:30:39 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6:17 AM, tijlan <jbot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 1 December 2012 12:09, ianek <jan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > This is just what {se srana} or {selra'a} is.
>>>>
>>>> An about, a thematic focus, is more specific than that. cfika2, for
>>>> instance, may be as much relevant to cfika1 as cfika3 may be -- a work
>>>> of fiction cu srana both its plot and its author (and possibly many
>>>> other things). Consider:
>>>>
>>>> la .alis. cfika sera'a lo nixli
>>>>
>>>> This doesn't necessarily say that the plot revolves around a girl --
>>>> it could as well be saying the work is dedicated to a girl.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm sorry, I don't see how anything based on {srana} could possibly mean 
>>> "dedicated to". You'll have to explain.
>>>
>>
>> Well, may be it's not that something is wrong with {sera'a/pe/srana} but 
>> rather wrong usage and/or glossing.
>>
>> *srana x1 pertains to/is germane/relevant to/concerns/is 
>> related/associated with/is about x2.*
>> *ckini  x1 is related to/associated with/akin to x2 by relationship x3.*
>>
>> If we arbitrarily chose parts of those definitions we'd get
>> *  srana x1 is relevant to x2
>>   ckini  x1 is relevant to x2
>> *
>> which is nonsense.
>>
>
> ckini wouldn't be that. For one thing, you left out the x3, and for 
> another, it isn't "relevant", it's "related". The Cold War isn't relevant 
> to WWII, but it is related (by being a direct result of it).
>

Sorry, it should be 
*  srana x1 is releted to x2*
*  ckini  x1 is related to x2 by relationship x3*

 
>
>> If {srana} really gives us thematic role then all the other "is relevant 
>> to" meanings can be assigned to {ckini/seki'i}.
>>
>>
>>  
>>>
>>>> mu'o
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.**com.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@**
>>>> googlegroups.com.
>>>>
>>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/**
>>>> group/lojban-beginners?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>>>
>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>>>
>>>  -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/Nur4CHZZaiAJ.
>>
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>> lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
>> For more options, visit this group at 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/i38a2Kc4l7sJ.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.


------=_Part_53_19989424.1354431655218
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<br><br>On Sunday, December 2, 2012 10:50:42 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:<blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-lef=
t: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, De=
c 1, 2012 at 11:09 PM, la gleki <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"javascript=
:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"pWp4E5GSgAIJ">gleki.is...@gma=
il.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:30:39 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:<blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6=
:17 AM, tijlan <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a>jbot...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wr=
ote:<div>
<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-lef=
t:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>On 1 December 2012 12:09, ianek &lt;<a>jan...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:=
<br>
&gt; This is just what {se srana} or {selra'a} is.<br>
<br>
</div>An about, a thematic focus, is more specific than that. cfika2, for<b=
r>
instance, may be as much relevant to cfika1 as cfika3 may be -- a work<br>
of fiction cu srana both its plot and its author (and possibly many<br>
other things). Consider:<br>
<br>
la .alis. cfika sera'a lo nixli<br>
<br>
This doesn't necessarily say that the plot revolves around a girl --<br>
it could as well be saying the work is dedicated to a girl.<br></blockquote=
><div><br>I'm sorry, I don't see how anything based on {srana} could possib=
ly mean "dedicated to". You'll have to explain.<br>
</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Well, may be it's not th=
at something is wrong with {sera'a/pe/srana} but rather wrong usage and/or =
glossing.</div><div><br></div><div><i>srana&nbsp;x1 pertains to/is germane/=
relevant to/concerns/is related/associated with<b>/is about x2</b>.</i></di=
v>
<div><i>ckini &nbsp;x1 is related to/associated with/akin to x2 by relation=
ship x3.</i></div><div><br></div><div>If we arbitrarily chose parts of thos=
e definitions we'd get<br><i>&nbsp; srana x1 is relevant to x2<br>&nbsp; ck=
ini &nbsp;x1 is relevant to x2<br>
</i></div><div>which is nonsense.</div></blockquote><div><br>ckini wouldn't=
 be that. For one thing, you left out the x3, and for another, it isn't "re=
levant", it's "related". The Cold War isn't relevant to WWII, but it is rel=
ated (by being a direct result of it).<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br=
></div><div>Sorry, it should be&nbsp;</div><div><div><i>&nbsp; srana x1 is =
releted to x2</i></div><div><i>&nbsp; ckini &nbsp;x1 is related to x2&nbsp;=
by relationship x3</i></div></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left: 1ex;"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>
&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div></div><div>If {srana} reall=
y gives us thematic role then all the other "is relevant to" meanings can b=
e assigned to {ckini/seki'i}.</div>
<div><br><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;marg=
in-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote"><div>
&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

mu'o<br>
<div><div><div><br>
--<br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.<br></div>
To post to this group, send email to <a>lojban-b...@googlegroups.<u></u>com=
</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a>lojban-beginne...@<u></u>g=
ooglegroups<wbr>.com</a>.<div><br>
For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/<=
u></u>group<wbr>/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
<br>
</div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>=
mu'o mi'e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.lu=
k. mi patfu do zo'o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<=
br>

<br>
</div></blockquote><div>

<p></p>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.<br></div>
To view this discussion on the web visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.c=
om/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/Nur4CHZZaiAJ" target=3D"_blank">https://groups.=
google.com/d/<wbr>msg/lojban-beginners/-/<wbr>Nur4CHZZaiAJ</a>.<div><div>
<br>=20
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_bla=
nk" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"pWp4E5GSgAIJ">lojban-b...@googlegroups.<wbr>co=
m</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"javascript:" targe=
t=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"pWp4E5GSgAIJ">lojban-beginne...@<wbr>=
googlegroups.com</a>.<br>

For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/<=
wbr>group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>


</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu'o mi'e .=
aionys.<br><br>.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu=
 do zo'o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<br>
<br>
</blockquote>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.<br />
To view this discussion on the web visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.c=
om/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/i38a2Kc4l7sJ">https://groups.google.com/d/msg/l=
ojban-beginners/-/i38a2Kc4l7sJ</a>.<br />=20
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />



------=_Part_53_19989424.1354431655218--