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From: la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Why no "about" brivla?
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On Sunday, December 2, 2012 11:15:01 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
>
> On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 12:00 AM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com<javascript:>
> > wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, December 2, 2012 10:50:42 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:09 PM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:30:39 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6:17 AM, tijlan <jbot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1 December 2012 12:09, ianek <jan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> > This is just what {se srana} or {selra'a} is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An about, a thematic focus, is more specific than that. cfika2, for
>>>>>> instance, may be as much relevant to cfika1 as cfika3 may be -- a work
>>>>>> of fiction cu srana both its plot and its author (and possibly many
>>>>>> other things). Consider:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> la .alis. cfika sera'a lo nixli
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This doesn't necessarily say that the plot revolves around a girl --
>>>>>> it could as well be saying the work is dedicated to a girl.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sorry, I don't see how anything based on {srana} could possibly 
>>>>> mean "dedicated to". You'll have to explain.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, may be it's not that something is wrong with {sera'a/pe/srana} 
>>>> but rather wrong usage and/or glossing.
>>>>
>>>> *srana x1 pertains to/is germane/relevant to/concerns/is 
>>>> related/associated with/is about x2.*
>>>> *ckini  x1 is related to/associated with/akin to x2 by relationship x3.
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> If we arbitrarily chose parts of those definitions we'd get
>>>> *  srana x1 is relevant to x2
>>>>   ckini  x1 is relevant to x2
>>>> *
>>>> which is nonsense.
>>>>
>>>
>>> ckini wouldn't be that. For one thing, you left out the x3, and for 
>>> another, it isn't "relevant", it's "related". The Cold War isn't relevant 
>>> to WWII, but it is related (by being a direct result of it).
>>>
>>
>> Sorry, it should be 
>> *  srana x1 is releted to x2*
>> *  ckini  x1 is related to x2 by relationship x3*
>>
>
> Well, by that definition, srana is {ckini fi zi'o}, which makes them 
> synonyms in the same way that litru is to klama (litru = {klama zi'o zi'o}).
>

Haven't you read my previous post? I mean that choosing words from full 
definitions ARBITRARILY can lead to this result which is nonsense.
ju'o it's all bad glossing.
I suggest that srana refers to topic and ckini means "to be associated 
with".
to dedicate is {finfriti}, {tecu'u} etc.


> (Btw, in my view, zi'o doesn't say that there is no such thing as whatever 
> place it's in, but just that it's not important. For example, {ko'a klama 
> zi'o zi'o ...} doesn't mean there /isn't/ an origin or destination, it just 
> means that they don't matter. Dissenters should use zo'e instead.)
>

I think the CLL says almost the same.
 

>  
>
>>   
>>>
>>>> If {srana} really gives us thematic role then all the other "is 
>>>> relevant to" meanings can be assigned to {ckini/seki'i}.
>>>>
>>>
> -- 
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
>

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<br><br>On Sunday, December 2, 2012 11:15:01 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:<blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-lef=
t: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, De=
c 2, 2012 at 12:00 AM, la gleki <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"javascript=
:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"aoMVXLQjPQYJ">gleki.is...@gma=
il.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On Sunday, December 2, 2012 10:50:42 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:<div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px=
 #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Dec 1, 201=
2 at 11:09 PM, la gleki <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a>gleki.is...@gmail.com</a>&=
gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:30:39 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:<blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6=
:17 AM, tijlan <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a>jbot...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wr=
ote:<div>

<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-lef=
t:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>On 1 December 2012 12:09, ianek &lt;<a>jan...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:=
<br>
&gt; This is just what {se srana} or {selra'a} is.<br>
<br>
</div>An about, a thematic focus, is more specific than that. cfika2, for<b=
r>
instance, may be as much relevant to cfika1 as cfika3 may be -- a work<br>
of fiction cu srana both its plot and its author (and possibly many<br>
other things). Consider:<br>
<br>
la .alis. cfika sera'a lo nixli<br>
<br>
This doesn't necessarily say that the plot revolves around a girl --<br>
it could as well be saying the work is dedicated to a girl.<br></blockquote=
><div><br>I'm sorry, I don't see how anything based on {srana} could possib=
ly mean "dedicated to". You'll have to explain.<br>

</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Well, may be it's not th=
at something is wrong with {sera'a/pe/srana} but rather wrong usage and/or =
glossing.</div><div><br></div><div><i>srana&nbsp;x1 pertains to/is germane/=
relevant to/concerns/is related/associated with<b>/is about x2</b>.</i></di=
v>

<div><i>ckini &nbsp;x1 is related to/associated with/akin to x2 by relation=
ship x3.</i></div><div><br></div><div>If we arbitrarily chose parts of thos=
e definitions we'd get<br><i>&nbsp; srana x1 is relevant to x2<br>&nbsp; ck=
ini &nbsp;x1 is relevant to x2<br>

</i></div><div>which is nonsense.</div></blockquote><div><br>ckini wouldn't=
 be that. For one thing, you left out the x3, and for another, it isn't "re=
levant", it's "related". The Cold War isn't relevant to WWII, but it is rel=
ated (by being a direct result of it).<br>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Sorry, it should be&nbsp=
;</div><div><div><i>&nbsp; srana x1 is releted to x2</i></div><div><i>&nbsp=
; ckini &nbsp;x1 is related to x2&nbsp;by relationship x3</i></div></div></=
blockquote><div><br>Well, by that definition, srana is {ckini fi zi'o}, whi=
ch makes them synonyms in the same way that litru is to klama (litru =3D {k=
lama zi'o zi'o}).<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Haven't y=
ou read my previous post? I mean that choosing words from full definitions =
ARBITRARILY can lead to this result which is nonsense.</div><div>ju'o it's =
all bad glossing.</div><div>I suggest that srana refers to topic and ckini =
means "to be associated with".</div><div>to dedicate is {finfriti}, {tecu'u=
} etc.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><di=
v class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>
<br>(Btw, in my view, zi'o doesn't say that there is no such thing as whate=
ver place it's in, but just that it's not important. For example, {ko'a kla=
ma zi'o zi'o ...} doesn't mean there /isn't/ an origin or destination, it j=
ust means that they don't matter. Dissenters should use zo'e instead.)<br><=
/div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think the CLL says almost the=
 same.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>
&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div></div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>
&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div></div><div>If {srana} reall=
y gives us thematic role then all the other "is relevant to" meanings can b=
e assigned to {ckini/seki'i}.</div>
</blockquote></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br>-- <br>mu'o mi=
'e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi p=
atfu do zo'o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<br>
<br>
</blockquote>

<p></p>

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