>>>> . >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>> >>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/kQJ2iFS5UZ4J. >> >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --bcaec54eec40558f0c04cfe08f11 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FWIW, I define {srana} in lojban as follows:

{.i lo ka ce'u srana c= e'u cu ka ce'u bu'a ce'u}

And actually being able= to say *what* that bu'a is is what led me to a post much earlier about= "srana3", which indeed, I now realise, would make {srana} essent= ially identical to {ckini}.

(With a srana3, the definition becomes {.i lo ka ce'u srana ce'= ;u cu ka ce'u ce'u me'au ce'u})

Th= us, I currently believe that srana can be defined in terms of ckini as such= :

{.i lo ka ce'u srana ce'u cu ka ce'u ce'u ckini lo ka = co'e}

Things that are relevant to each other are simply relat= ed by an obvious relationship.

.i mi'e la tsan= i mu'o

On 2 December 2012 08:02, Jonathan Jones <e= yeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 2:= 48 AM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:=
On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:32:48 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
On Sun, Dec 2,= 2012 at 1:03 AM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 11:15:01 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
On Sun, Dec 2= , 2012 at 12:00 AM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com= > wrote:

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 10:50:42 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
On Sat, Dec 1, 201= 2 at 11:09 PM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:30:39 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6= :17 AM, tijlan <jbot...@gmail.com> wr= ote:

On 1 December 2012 12:09, ianek <jan...@gmail.com> wrote:=
> This is just what {se srana} or {selra'a} is.

An about, a thematic focus, is more specific than that. cfika2, for instance, may be as much relevant to cfika1 as cfika3 may be -- a work
of fiction cu srana both its plot and its author (and possibly many
other things). Consider:

la .alis. cfika sera'a lo nixli

This doesn't necessarily say that the plot revolves around a girl -- it could as well be saying the work is dedicated to a girl.

I'm sorry, I don't see how anything based on {srana} coul= d possibly mean "dedicated to". You'll have to explain.

Well, may be it's no= t that something is wrong with {sera'a/pe/srana} but rather wrong usage= and/or glossing.

srana=A0x1 pertains to/is ger= mane/relevant to/concerns/is related/associated with/is about x2.

ckini =A0x1 is related to/associated with/akin to x2 by relationshi= p x3.

If we arbitrarily chose parts of those d= efinitions we'd get
=A0 srana x1 is relevant to x2
=A0 ckini = =A0x1 is relevant to x2

which is nonsense.

ckini wouldn&#= 39;t be that. For one thing, you left out the x3, and for another, it isn&#= 39;t "relevant", it's "related". The Cold War isn&#= 39;t relevant to WWII, but it is related (by being a direct result of it).<= br>

Sorry, it should be=A0
=A0 srana x1 is releted to x2
=A0 ckini = =A0x1 is related to x2=A0by relationship x3

Well, by that definition, srana is {ckini fi zi'o}, which makes them sy= nonyms in the same way that litru is to klama (litru =3D {klama zi'o zi= 'o}).

Haven= 't you read my previous post? I mean that choosing words from full defi= nitions ARBITRARILY can lead to this result which is nonsense.

ju'o it's all bad glossing.
I suggest that srana ref= ers to topic and ckini means "to be associated with".
t= o dedicate is {finfriti}, {tecu'u} etc.

No, ko'a srana ko'e means that ko'a is relevant to ko'e, i.= e. ko'a has something to do with ko'e.

While it is true that= the topic of something is pertinent, something which is pertinent is not n= ecessarily the topic.

Then what is your = opinion about my first post? Is it true that "topic" brivla has r= ight to exist on it's own?

My opinion is that sera'a serves the purpose. As I said, "that whi= ch is pertinent to A" is a superset of "the topic of A".
=A0

<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border= -left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Roosevelt is pertinent to the Great Depression, but he is most certainly /n= ot/ the topic of it.
=A0

(Btw, in my view, zi'o doesn't say that there is no such thing as w= hatever place it's in, but just that it's not important. For exampl= e, {ko'a klama zi'o zi'o ...} doesn't mean there /isn't= / an origin or destination, it just means that they don't matter. Disse= nters should use zo'e instead.)

I think the CLL says alm= ost the same.
=A0

=A0

=A0
If {srana} really g= ives us thematic role then all the other "is relevant to" meaning= s can be assigned to {ckini/seki'i}.

--
mu'= o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i d= oi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your fath= er. :D )

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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.= google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/UZopTp21hiIJ.

=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com= .
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/<= u>group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

--
= mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa = bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am yo= ur father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.= google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/kQJ2iFS5UZ4J.

=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

= .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'= o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

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--bcaec54eec40558f0c04cfe08f11--