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Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Why no "about" brivla?
From: ianek <janek37@gmail.com>
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On 2 Gru, 14:02, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 2:48 AM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.n...@gmail.com> wro=
te:
> > On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:32:48 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
>
> >> On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 1:03 AM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>
> >>> On Sunday, December 2, 2012 11:15:01 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
>
> >>>> On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 12:00 AM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com>wro=
te:
>
> >>>>> On Sunday, December 2, 2012 10:50:42 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
>
> >>>>>> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:09 PM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com>w=
rote:
>
> >>>>>>> On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:30:39 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6:17 AM, tijlan <jbot...@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>
> >>>>>>>> On 1 December 2012 12:09, ianek <jan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> > This is just what {se srana} or {selra'a} is.
>
> >>>>>>>>> An about, a thematic focus, is more specific than that. cfika2,=
 for
> >>>>>>>>> instance, may be as much relevant to cfika1 as cfika3 may be --=
 a
> >>>>>>>>> work
> >>>>>>>>> of fiction cu srana both its plot and its author (and possibly =
many
> >>>>>>>>> other things). Consider:
>
> >>>>>>>>> la .alis. cfika sera'a lo nixli
>
> >>>>>>>>> This doesn't necessarily say that the plot revolves around a gi=
rl
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> it could as well be saying the work is dedicated to a girl.
>
> >>>>>>>> I'm sorry, I don't see how anything based on {srana} could possi=
bly
> >>>>>>>> mean "dedicated to". You'll have to explain.
>
> >>>>>>> Well, may be it's not that something is wrong with {sera'a/pe/sra=
na}
> >>>>>>> but rather wrong usage and/or glossing.
>
> >>>>>>> *srana x1 pertains to/is germane/relevant to/concerns/is
> >>>>>>> related/associated with/is about x2.*
> >>>>>>> *ckini =A0x1 is related to/associated with/akin to x2 by relation=
ship
> >>>>>>> x3.*
>
> >>>>>>> If we arbitrarily chose parts of those definitions we'd get
> >>>>>>> * =A0srana x1 is relevant to x2
> >>>>>>> =A0 ckini =A0x1 is relevant to x2
> >>>>>>> *
> >>>>>>> which is nonsense.
>
> >>>>>> ckini wouldn't be that. For one thing, you left out the x3, and fo=
r
> >>>>>> another, it isn't "relevant", it's "related". The Cold War isn't r=
elevant
> >>>>>> to WWII, but it is related (by being a direct result of it).
>
> >>>>> Sorry, it should be
> >>>>> * =A0srana x1 is releted to x2*
> >>>>> * =A0ckini =A0x1 is related to x2 by relationship x3*
>
> >>>> Well, by that definition, srana is {ckini fi zi'o}, which makes them
> >>>> synonyms in the same way that litru is to klama (litru =3D {klama zi=
'o zi'o}).
>
> >>> Haven't you read my previous post? I mean that choosing words from fu=
ll
> >>> definitions ARBITRARILY can lead to this result which is nonsense.
> >>> ju'o it's all bad glossing.
> >>> I suggest that srana refers to topic and ckini means "to be associate=
d
> >>> with".
> >>> to dedicate is {finfriti}, {tecu'u} etc.
>
> >> No, ko'a srana ko'e means that ko'a is relevant to ko'e, i.e. ko'a has
> >> something to do with ko'e.
>
> >> While it is true that the topic of something is pertinent, something
> >> which is pertinent is not necessarily the topic.
>
> > Then what is your opinion about my first post? Is it true that "topic"
> > brivla has right to exist on it's own?
>
> My opinion is that sera'a serves the purpose. As I said, "that which is
> pertinent to A" is a superset of "the topic of A".

So what? By analogy: why would we have {mlatu} when it's clearly a
subset of {danlu}, so danlu serves the purpose of "x1 is a cat"?

mu'o mi'e ianek

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Roosevelt is pertinent to the Great Depression, but he is most certainl=
y
> >> /not/ the topic of it.
>
> >>> =A0(Btw, in my view, zi'o doesn't say that there is no such thing as
> >>>> whatever place it's in, but just that it's not important. For exampl=
e,
> >>>> {ko'a klama zi'o zi'o ...} doesn't mean there /isn't/ an origin or
> >>>> destination, it just means that they don't matter. Dissenters should=
 use
> >>>> zo'e instead.)
>
> >>> I think the CLL says almost the same.
>
> >>>>>>> If {srana} really gives us thematic role then all the other "is
> >>>>>>> relevant to" meanings can be assigned to {ckini/seki'i}.
>
> >>>> --
> >>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> >>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> >>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
> >>>> =A0--
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> >>> To view this discussion on the web visithttps://groups.google.com/d/*=
*
> >>> msg/lojban-beginners/-/**UZopTp21hiIJ<https://groups.google.com/d/msg=
/lojban-beginners/-/UZopTp21hiIJ>
> >>> .
>
> >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.**com.
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@**
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>
> >>> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/**
> >>> group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den<http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-=
beginners?hl=3Den>
> >>> .
>
> >> --
> >> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
> >> =A0--
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou=
ps
> > "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/kQJ2iFS5UZ4J.
>
> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
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>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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