FWIW, I define {srana} in lojban as fol= lows:

{.i lo ka ce'u srana ce'u cu ka ce'u bu'a ce'u}

And act= ually being able to say *what* that bu'a is is what led me to a post much e= arlier about "srana3", which indeed, I now realise, would make {srana} esse= ntially identical to {ckini}.

(With a srana3, the definition becomes {.i lo ka ce'u srana ce'u cu ka= ce'u ce'u me'au ce'u})

Thus, I currently believe = that srana can be defined in terms of ckini as such:

{.i lo ka ce'u srana ce'u cu ka ce'u ce'u ckini lo ka co'e}

= Things that are relevant to each other are simply related by an obvious rel= ationship.

That's what I was afraid o= f. And I don't like it. Then we don't have a gismu for "topic", do we?

If {srana} is about topic then ckini makes sense with all it's three = places.

Then {srana} is not just a subset of {ckini}. It gives us= topicalisation in the form of a predicate (which is very nice) but which i= s still poorly understood (remember recent discussions on {kau} acting as a= topic marker etc.)

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

On 2 December 2012 08:02, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 2:48 AM, la gle= ki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>
On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:32:48 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
On Sun, Dec 2,= 2012 at 1:03 AM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 11:15:01 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
On Sun, Dec 2= , 2012 at 12:00 AM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com= > wrote:

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 10:50:42 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
On Sat, Dec 1, 201= 2 at 11:09 PM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:30:39 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6= :17 AM, tijlan <jbot...@gmail.com> wr= ote:

On 1 December 2012 12:09, ianek <jan...@gmail.com> wrote:=
> This is just what {se srana} or {selra'a} is.

An about, a thematic focus, is more specific than that. cfika2, for instance, may be as much relevant to cfika1 as cfika3 may be -- a work
of fiction cu srana both its plot and its author (and possibly many
other things). Consider:

la .alis. cfika sera'a lo nixli

This doesn't necessarily say that the plot revolves around a girl --
it could as well be saying the work is dedicated to a girl.

I'm sorry, I don't see how anything based on {srana} could possib= ly mean "dedicated to". You'll have to explain.

Well, may be it's not th= at something is wrong with {sera'a/pe/srana} but rather wrong usage and/or = glossing.

srana x1 pertains to/is germane/= relevant to/concerns/is related/associated with/is about x2.
ckini x1 is related to/associated with/akin to x2 by relation= ship x3.

If we arbitrarily chose parts of thos= e definitions we'd get
srana x1 is relevant to x2
ck= ini x1 is relevant to x2

which is nonsense.

ckini wouldn't= be that. For one thing, you left out the x3, and for another, it isn't "re= levant", it's "related". The Cold War isn't relevant to WWII, but it is rel= ated (by being a direct result of it).

Sorry, it should be = ;
srana x1 is releted to x2
= ; ckini x1 is related to x2 by relationship x3

Well, by that definition, srana is {ckini fi zi'o}, which makes them synony= ms in the same way that litru is to klama (litru =3D {klama zi'o zi'o}).

Haven't you read = my previous post? I mean that choosing words from full definitions ARBITRAR= ILY can lead to this result which is nonsense.

ju'o it's all bad glossing.
I suggest that srana refers to t= opic and ckini means "to be associated with".
to dedicate is {fin= friti}, {tecu'u} etc.

No, ko'a srana ko'e means that ko'a is relevant to ko'e, i.e. ko'a has some= thing to do with ko'e.

While it is true that the topic of something = is pertinent, something which is pertinent is not necessarily the topic.

Then what is your = opinion about my first post? Is it true that "topic" brivla has right to ex= ist on it's own?

My opinion is that sera'a serves the purpose. As I said, "that which is per= tinent to A" is a superset of "the topic of A".

Roosevelt is pertinent to the Great Depression, but he is most certainly /n= ot/ the topic of it.

(Btw, in my view, zi'o doesn't say that there is no such thing as whatever = place it's in, but just that it's not important. For example, {ko'a klama z= i'o zi'o ...} doesn't mean there /isn't/ an origin or destination, it just = means that they don't matter. Dissenters should use zo'e instead.)

I think the CLL says alm= ost the same.

If {srana} reall= y gives us thematic role then all the other "is relevant to" meanings can b= e assigned to {ckini/seki'i}.

--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi p= atfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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= mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.lu= k. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<= br>

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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa b= u .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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