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[208.81.237.197]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id t49si704031yhc.1.2012.12.02.09.22.26; Sun, 02 Dec 2012 09:22:27 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of park.annie@asb.gaggle.net designates 208.81.237.197 as permitted sender) client-ip=208.81.237.197; Received: (qmail 31202 invoked by uid 358); 2 Dec 2012 17:22:25 -0000 Received: from [10.0.32.2] (HELO mx5.gaggle.net) (10.0.32.2) by mx7.gaggle.net (qpsmtpd/0.83) with ESMTP; Sun, 02 Dec 2012 09:22:25 -0800 Received: from [98.81.124.235] (HELO [10.0.1.6]) (98.81.124.235) (smtp-auth username Park.Annie@asb.gaggle.net, mechanism plain) by mx5.gaggle.net (qpsmtpd/0.83) with ESMTPA; Sun, 02 Dec 2012 09:22:23 -0800 Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Why no "about" brivla? References: <33272af0-7522-44d7-a040-e451bf851595@googlegroups.com> <3c1628ec-40a0-41fd-90a9-65e110d9ab0a@googlegroups.com> <748b91a9-e6b3-485e-8049-0f5d2521350e@googlegroups.com> From: Annie X-Mailer: iPod Mail (10A523) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <3F54DCD8-C44D-4CC1-9EDE-B9FC9B9CB610@asb.gaggle.net> Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 11:22:13 -0600 To: "lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-GOMS-Validated-Recipients: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Gaggle-Info: *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. X-Gaggle-Sender-Ref-ID: 4ba428aeedef92d1855c22ca903c70a37eb6f7ba89830dec01919503260e1c7109b435f20a705cb824993dbb8cb6a79babbe4f81370bfcd5781f957816d3137f X-Gaggle-APS-Scores: false -3.05352 0 0 2 http://groups.google.com%2F** 5.0.1-1061-22 X-Gaggle-APS-Scores: false -9.0 0 0 2 https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2F** null X-Gaggle-APS-Scores: false -9.0 0 0 2 https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Fmsg%2Flojban-beginners%2F-%2FkQJ2iFS5UZ4J. null X-Gaggle-APS-Scores: false -9.0 0 0 2 http://groups.google.com%2Fgroup%2Flojban-beginners%3Fhl%3Den. null X-Gaggle-APS-Scores: false -9.0 0 0 5 http://gleki.is.my null X-Gaggle-APS-Scores: false -9.0 0 0 2 http://groups.google.com%2Fd%2F null X-Gaggle-APS-Scores: false -9.0 0 0 2 http://groups.google.com%2Fd%2Fmsg%2Flojban null X-Gaggle-APS-Scores: false -9.0 0 0 2 http://groups.google.com%2F null X-Gaggle-APS-Scores: false -9.0 0 0 2 http://groups.google.com%2Fgroup%2Flojban null X-Gaggle-APS-Scores: false -10.0 0 20 0 https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Fmsg%2Flojban-beginners%2F-%2FUZopTp21hiIJ%3E null X-Gaggle-Ref-ID: 4ba428aeedef92d1b4542c1a7b904ee4a155691d0533c8a6 X-Original-Sender: park.annie@asb.gaggle.net X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of park.annie@asb.gaggle.net designates 208.81.237.197 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=park.annie@asb.gaggle.net Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / What is danlu? How can mlatu be a subset of anything? I honestly think the whole thing is crazy. Sent from my iPod On Dec 2, 2012, at 10:14 AM, ianek wrote: > > > On 2 Gru, 14:02, Jonathan Jones wrote: >> On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 2:48 AM, la gleki wrote: >>> On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:32:48 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote: >> >>>> On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 1:03 AM, la gleki wrote: >> >>>>> On Sunday, December 2, 2012 11:15:01 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote: >> >>>>>> On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 12:00 AM, la gleki wrote: >> >>>>>>> On Sunday, December 2, 2012 10:50:42 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote: >> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:09 PM, la gleki wrote: >> >>>>>>>>> On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:30:39 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6:17 AM, tijlan wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>> On 1 December 2012 12:09, ianek wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> This is just what {se srana} or {selra'a} is. >> >>>>>>>>>>> An about, a thematic focus, is more specific than that. cfika2, for >>>>>>>>>>> instance, may be as much relevant to cfika1 as cfika3 may be -- a >>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>> of fiction cu srana both its plot and its author (and possibly many >>>>>>>>>>> other things). Consider: >> >>>>>>>>>>> la .alis. cfika sera'a lo nixli >> >>>>>>>>>>> This doesn't necessarily say that the plot revolves around a girl >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> it could as well be saying the work is dedicated to a girl. >> >>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry, I don't see how anything based on {srana} could possibly >>>>>>>>>> mean "dedicated to". You'll have to explain. >> >>>>>>>>> Well, may be it's not that something is wrong with {sera'a/pe/srana} >>>>>>>>> but rather wrong usage and/or glossing. >> >>>>>>>>> *srana x1 pertains to/is germane/relevant to/concerns/is >>>>>>>>> related/associated with/is about x2.* >>>>>>>>> *ckini x1 is related to/associated with/akin to x2 by relationship >>>>>>>>> x3.* >> >>>>>>>>> If we arbitrarily chose parts of those definitions we'd get >>>>>>>>> * srana x1 is relevant to x2 >>>>>>>>> ckini x1 is relevant to x2 >>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>> which is nonsense. >> >>>>>>>> ckini wouldn't be that. For one thing, you left out the x3, and for >>>>>>>> another, it isn't "relevant", it's "related". The Cold War isn't relevant >>>>>>>> to WWII, but it is related (by being a direct result of it). >> >>>>>>> Sorry, it should be >>>>>>> * srana x1 is releted to x2* >>>>>>> * ckini x1 is related to x2 by relationship x3* >> >>>>>> Well, by that definition, srana is {ckini fi zi'o}, which makes them >>>>>> synonyms in the same way that litru is to klama (litru = {klama zi'o zi'o}). >> >>>>> Haven't you read my previous post? I mean that choosing words from full >>>>> definitions ARBITRARILY can lead to this result which is nonsense. >>>>> ju'o it's all bad glossing. >>>>> I suggest that srana refers to topic and ckini means "to be associated >>>>> with". >>>>> to dedicate is {finfriti}, {tecu'u} etc. >> >>>> No, ko'a srana ko'e means that ko'a is relevant to ko'e, i.e. ko'a has >>>> something to do with ko'e. >> >>>> While it is true that the topic of something is pertinent, something >>>> which is pertinent is not necessarily the topic. >> >>> Then what is your opinion about my first post? Is it true that "topic" >>> brivla has right to exist on it's own? >> >> My opinion is that sera'a serves the purpose. As I said, "that which is >> pertinent to A" is a superset of "the topic of A". > > So what? By analogy: why would we have {mlatu} when it's clearly a > subset of {danlu}, so danlu serves the purpose of "x1 is a cat"? > > mu'o mi'e ianek > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Roosevelt is pertinent to the Great Depression, but he is most certainly >>>> /not/ the topic of it. >> >>>>> (Btw, in my view, zi'o doesn't say that there is no such thing as >>>>>> whatever place it's in, but just that it's not important. For example, >>>>>> {ko'a klama zi'o zi'o ...} doesn't mean there /isn't/ an origin or >>>>>> destination, it just means that they don't matter. Dissenters should use >>>>>> zo'e instead.) >> >>>>> I think the CLL says almost the same. >> >>>>>>>>> If {srana} really gives us thematic role then all the other "is >>>>>>>>> relevant to" meanings can be assigned to {ckini/seki'i}. >> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >>>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visithttps://groups.google.com/d/** >>>>> msg/lojban-beginners/-/**UZopTp21hiIJ >>>>> . >> >>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.**com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne...@** >>>>> googlegroups.com. >> >>>>> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/** >>>>> group/lojban-beginners?hl=en >>>>> . >> >>>> -- >>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/kQJ2iFS5UZ4J. >> >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.