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Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Why no "about" brivla?
From: ianek <janek37@gmail.com>
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Or maybe IRC #ckule. IRC has been around for quite a long while, it
would be very strange if it hasn't adapted for blind people.

On 3 Gru, 12:01, la gleki <gleki.is.my.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> No textbooks adapted for blind people? Might be true. But what about Mumb=
le
> and/or Skype?
> Can't we organise voice lessons there? It would be awesome to have blind
> lojbanists as well.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, December 3, 2012 2:17:13 PM UTC+4, ianek wrote:
>
> > On 3 Gru, 05:15, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Annie <park.an...@asb.gaggle.net>
> > wrote:
> > > > How do you get "is dedicated to" out of "is related to"?
>
> > > I'd like to know that myself.
>
> > > > Besides, someone was trying to say that a more-than-five-letter wor=
d
> > meaos
> > > > "dedicate". How is that possible, when it's not a gismu?
>
> > > I think you're confusing "brivla" and "gismu" here. Firstly, gismu ar=
e
> > not
> > > the only words in Lojban that mean something. Every native and most
> > > borrowed words have some kind of meaning. Secondly, there are many
> > > different kinds of brivla besides gismu, tanru, lujvo, and fu'ivla be=
ing
> > > the most common, but there are other types I don't feel like getting
> > into
> > > (, like the kind that use {me}).
>
> > I think you're confusing "brivla" and "selbri" here. There are no
> > brivla besides gismu, lujvo and fu'ivla. tanru is not a word, so it's
> > not a predicate word.
>
> > I also think that lojban-beginners is an awful place to start learning
> > Lojban. L4B or wave lessons would be much better, but I don't know
> > about their accessibility for blind people.
>
> > mu'o mi'e ianek
>
> > > selra'a is a lujvo formed from the rafsi of {se} (sel-) and {srana}
> > (ra'a).
> > > {se} is a word meaning to switch the first and second places of the
> > > immediately following gismu.
>
> > > So, if {srana} means "x1 pertains to/.../is about x2.", than {se sran=
a}
> > > (which is the same thing as {selra'a}) means "x1 is what x2 pertains
> > > to/.../is about."
>
> > > Again, vlasisku (http://vlasisku.lojban.org) is extremely useful when
> > it
> > > comes to the meanings of words- that's its entire purpose for existen=
ce,
> > > actually.
>
> > > As for {si'artersku}, that's formed from the rafsi for, respectively,
> > > sinma, te, and cusku, with the 'r' placed in there for grammatical
> > reasons.
> > > I leave it as an exercise for you to figure out what it means, which =
is
> > not
> > > at all difficult to do, as all you need to do is look up the meaning =
of
> > the
> > > words.
>
> > > > Why do you need =A0two words that mean practically the same in Lojb=
anhis
> > > > Isn't that illogicalhis
>
> > > > Sent from my iPod
>
> > > > On Dec 2, 2012, at 1:05 AM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.n...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > > On Sunday, December 2, 2012 10:52:54 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
>
> > > >> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:50 PM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > >>> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:09 PM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > >>>> On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:30:39 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
>
> > > >>>>> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6:17 AM, tijlan <jbot...@gmail.com> wrot=
e:
>
> > > >>>>> On 1 December 2012 12:09, ianek <jan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>>>>> > This is just what {se srana} or {selra'a} is.
>
> > > >>>>>> An about, a thematic focus, is more specific than that. cfika2=
,
> > for
> > > >>>>>> instance, may be as much relevant to cfika1 as cfika3 may be -=
- a
> > work
> > > >>>>>> of fiction cu srana both its plot and its author (and possibly
> > many
> > > >>>>>> other things). Consider:
>
> > > >>>>>> la .alis. cfika sera'a lo nixli
>
> > > >>>>>> This doesn't necessarily say that the plot revolves around a g=
irl
> > --
> > > >>>>>> it could as well be saying the work is dedicated to a girl.
>
> > > >>>>> I'm sorry, I don't see how anything based on {srana} could
> > possibly
> > > >>>>> mean "dedicated to". You'll have to explain.
>
> > > >>>> Well, may be it's not that something is wrong with
> > {sera'a/pe/srana}
> > > >>>> but rather wrong usage and/or glossing.
>
> > > >>>> *srana x1 pertains to/is germane/relevant to/concerns/is
> > > >>>> related/associated with/is about x2.*
> > > >>>> *ckini =A0x1 is related to/associated with/akin to x2 by relatio=
nship
> > x3.
> > > >>>> *
>
> > > >>>> If we arbitrarily chose parts of those definitions we'd get
> > > >>>> * =A0srana x1 is relevant to x2
> > > >>>> =A0 ckini =A0x1 is relevant to x2
> > > >>>> *
> > > >>>> which is nonsense.
>
> > > >>> ckini wouldn't be that. For one thing, you left out the x3, and f=
or
> > > >>> another, it isn't "relevant", it's "related". The Cold War isn't
> > relevant
> > > >>> to WWII, but it is related (by being a direct result of it).
>
> > > >>>> If {srana} really gives us thematic role then all the other "is
> > > >>>> relevant to" meanings can be assigned to {ckini/seki'i}.
>
> > > >> Furthermore, your response does not show how one can get "dedicate=
d
> > to"
> > > >> out of srana.
>
> > > > I can't explain tijlan's views.
> > > > For me "dedicated to..." is {tecu'u}, may be with a shade of {sinma=
}
> > (i.e.
> > > > fi'o sia'rtersku)
> > > > {finfriti} from jvs doesn't sound right for me (probably due to
> > polysemy
> > > > of "to dedicqte").
>
> > > >> --
> > > >> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> > > >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo=
'o
> > > >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
> > > >> =A0--
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> > > > "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > > >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/x2tg50HGg-oJ.
> > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com<j=
avascript:>.
>
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>
> > > > *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind.
>
> > > > --
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>
> > > --
> > > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> > > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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