On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 5:52 AM, Michael Turnians= ky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:

=A0 Yes, I believe it would, although I don't =A0know = if xorlo affects that. =A0I didn't mean to say it wouldn't. =A0The = second sentence would be one instance of giving (e.g they presented it to h= er together). =A0But the first sentence (to me) would still imply they both= gave her a particular ring (since it's only specified once), but they = might have given it to her at different times.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa

I= don't think so, as that places specificity on the generic article. {le= djine} would most certainly mean they both give her the same ring, but {lo= djine} means "one or more things which actually are a ring or torus&q= uot;. If John gives her a donut, and Jim gives her an inner tube, then the = statement {la .djan. e la .djim. dunda lo djine la .meris.} is still true.<= br> =A0

On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Jacob= Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm joking far more than I'm serious= in saying this, but considering that {lo djine} is a constant, wouldn'= t {la .djan. e la .djim. dunda lo djine la .meris.} mean that they each gav= e her *the same* ring :P ?

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

On 2 December 2012 10:07, Michael Turniansky <mturniansk= y@gmail.com> wrote:

=A0 Normally, you would use= a connective, like =A0"la djan .e la djim dunda lo djine la meris&quo= t; (John and Jim gave a ring to Mary, which would mean they each gave her a= ring) or "a djan jo'u la djim dunda lo djine la meris" (John= along with Jim gave a ring to Mary). =A0In these cases, the x1 is the whol= e connected give "John and Jim", "John along with Jim")=
=A0
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa

On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6:09 PM, Annie = <park.ann= ie@asb.gaggle.net> wrote:

What if, for example,= two people gave one thing !one or more people? Wouldn't that be more t= han one x1 and, mazbe more than one x3?

Sent from my iPod

On Nov 27, 2012, at 1:50 PM, = Remo Dentato <rd= entato@gmail.com> wrote:

By definition, any selbri has one, and only one, "x1".
= =A0
"x1" is the conventional name we use to indicate the first= sumti place, "x2" is the second sumti place and so on.

It's not a strict rule, you can use othe means to indicate the sumti pl= aces of a selbri. Still there can only be one first place, one second place= etc.

remod

On Tuesday, November 27, 2012, A= nnie wrote:
what = do you d if a word has, for example, more than one x1 or whatever?

Sent from my iPod

On Nov 27, 2012, at 12:55 AM, Remo Dent= ato <rdentato@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 27, 2012, Annie wrote:=
How can pronouns = be so complicated that you have to have a whole chapter on them?

=A0
It only seems complicated= because you are thinking about them in terms of pronouns.=A0
In = lojban there are no "nouns" and, hence, no "pronouns".<= /div> Once you get the basic concepts of sumti and selbri, it will be easier.
Exactly as {lo plise ku} is a sumti the refers to "an appl= e", {mi} is a sumti that refers to the current speaker, {ko'a} is = a sumti that refers to whatever I had assigned to it, {ti} refers to someth= ing that is close to me and I'm pointing at =A0and so on.

This is what we intended when we said that it is better not to try to = make direct comparisons between Lojban and English (or any other language).= It may be useful at the beginning but should not be talen too far.

remod

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