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From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.173 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f642a2af6d39104d012a4d6 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --e89a8f642a2af6d39104d012a4d6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 1:29 PM, tijlan wrote: > >> On 4 December 2012 10:12, Jonathan Jones wrote: >> > On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 12:36 AM, tijlan wrote: >> >> >> >> On 3 December 2012 04:15, Jonathan Jones wrote: >> >> > On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Annie >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> How do you get "is dedicated to" out of "is related to"? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > I'd like to know that myself. >> >> >> >> If I wrote a book in dedication to koha and made that explicit on a >> >> page, a link would have been created between the book and koha. >> >> Suppose koha is a high-profile celebrity and my book happens to be >> >> monumentally controversial for its own content; koha's manager doesn't >> >> appreciate the publicized unduly link and calls me demanding that {lo >> >> cukta co'u srana ko'a tai zo'e}, where {zo'e} refers to the fact that >> >> koha's name is on the book's particular page unrelated to the book's >> >> topic itself. >> >> >> >> mu'o >> > >> > >> > Not only is that example extremely contrived, it is also not an example >> of >> > srana being "dedicated to", and I highly doubt any manager would say "A >> book >> > is completed pertinent to ko'a in the obvious form" to yell at someone >> for >> > putting a name in a book. More likely they'd just say "Why is {name}'s >> name >> > in you book? I want it out, NOW!" >> >> Still, "x1 is dedicated to x2" is a kind of relation, just as "x1 >> plans x2 for process x3" (platu) is. >> > > Yes, but neither of those are srana. > > In my opinion the discussion here defines ckini too broadly. srana has a broad meaning, and it's basically the relationship that "pe/ne" has with the two sumti have. ckini, on the other hand, is more specifically a kinship relationship. The x1 and x2 would basically have to belong to the same set, or at best one being a member of the superset of the other. For example, I don't think that "la djan" and "lo zdani be la djan" would properly be described as being a ckini relationship, despite the fact you could argue that "la djan ckini lo zdani be la djan lo nu se zdani" is valid and true. But I could say something like "lo mlatu cu ckini lo cinfo lo nu jutsi". The preceding is just my opinion. YMMV --gejyspa -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --e89a8f642a2af6d39104d012a4d6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at = 5:45 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 1:29 PM= , tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:
On 4 December 2012 10:12, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 12:36 AM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 3 December 2012 04:15, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Annie <park.annie@asb.gaggle.net&g= t; wrote:
>> >>
>> >> How do you get "is dedicated to" out of "i= s related to"?
>> >
>> >
>> > I'd like to know that myself.
>>
>> If I wrote a book in dedication to koha and made that explicit on = a
>> page, a link would have been created between the book and koha. >> Suppose koha is a high-profile celebrity and my book happens to be=
>> monumentally controversial for its own content; koha's manager= doesn't
>> appreciate the publicized unduly link and calls me demanding that = {lo
>> cukta co'u srana ko'a tai zo'e}, where {zo'e} refe= rs to the fact that
>> koha's name is on the book's particular page unrelated to = the book's
>> topic itself.
>>
>> mu'o
>
>
> Not only is that example extremely contrived, it is also not an exampl= e of
> srana being "dedicated to", and I highly doubt any manager w= ould say "A book
> is completed pertinent to ko'a in the obvious form" to yell a= t someone for
> putting a name in a book. More likely they'd just say "Why is= {name}'s name
> in you book? I want it out, NOW!"

Still, "x1 is dedicated to x2" is a kind of relation, just = as "x1
plans x2 for process x3" (platu) is.

Ye= s, but neither of those are srana.
=A0
=A0 = In my opinion the discussion here defines ckini too broadly. =A0srana has a= broad meaning, and it's basically the relationship that "pe/ne&qu= ot; has with the two sumti have. =A0ckini, on the other hand, is more speci= fically a kinship relationship. =A0The x1 and x2 would basically have to be= long to the same set, or at best one being a member of the superset of the = other. =A0For example, I don't think that "la djan" and "= ;lo zdani be la djan" would properly be described as being a ckini rel= ationship, despite the fact you could argue =A0that "la djan ckini lo = zdani be la djan lo nu se zdani" is valid and true. =A0But I could say= something like "lo mlatu cu ckini lo cinfo lo nu jutsi". =A0The = preceding is just my opinion. YMMV
=A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa

--
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