On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 3:39 PM, Sebastian Fr=F6j= d <so.cool.ogi@gmail.com> wrote:

I first thought that ckini had something to do with being related to someon= e like fatherhood, brotherhood, auntness (?) etc.
Guess I was wrong then= . So how do you say: "Are you related?" in lojban, as in relative= s. Maybe something with lanzu?

Yes.
=A0

But family for my = swedish ears is more like close relatives, your household or they who you s= hare your life with, not your cousins wife or something similar.

Well, that's probably why lanzu has the "by = bond" x3 place, so that you could say something like {lo mi lanzu cu l= anzu mi .e lo mi bruna .e lo mi mamta fi lo ciblu pe'a}.
=A0

{srana} seems to have an asymmetric relation of x1 and x2 as default, altho= ugh not necessary, as expressed in it's note: "x₁ is co= nventionally more specific or constrained in scope than x_{2 .

I agree that the definitions of {srana} and {=
ckini} are a bit unclear, so =
hopefully this discussion will lead to some result, but I'm too tired r=
ight now to try to reason about it.

How official are the BPFK sections btw? Here I have r=
ead CLL, Lojban for beginners and vlasisku for over a year, and then =
this week I find out about BPFK, xorlo, PEG, fu'ivla-rafsi etc. I=
'm kind of stunned.

mu'omi'e jongausib
=}

2012/12/2 = ianek <janek37@gmail.com>

"danlu" means "x1 is an anima= l of species x2". I meant that the set of
cats is a subset of the set of all animals. Is vlasisku not usable by
blind people? I suppose so. vlasisku.lojban.org

mu'o mi'e ianek

On 2 Gru, 18:22, Annie <park.an...@asb.gaggle.net> wrote:
> What is danlu? How can mlatu be a subset of anything? I honestly think= the whole thing is crazy.
>
> Sent from my iPod
>

> On Dec 2, 2012, at 10:14 AM, ianek <jane...@gmail.com> wrote: >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2 Gru, 14:02, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 2:48 AM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.n...@gmail.com<= /a>> wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:32:48 PM UTC+4, aionys wrot= e:
>
> >>>> On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 1:03 AM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>> On Sunday, December 2, 2012 11:15:01 AM UTC+4, ai= onys wrote:
>
> >>>>>> On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 12:00 AM, la gleki <= ;gleki.is...@gma= il.com>wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> On Sunday, December 2, 2012 10:50:42 AM U= TC+4, aionys wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:09 PM, la g= leki <gleki.i= s...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>> On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:30:= 39 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6:17 A= M, tijlan <jbot..= .@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 1 December 2012 12:09, ian= ek <jan...@gmail.c= om> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> This is just what {se= srana} or {selra'a} is.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> An about, a thematic focu= s, is more specific than that. cfika2, for
> >>>>>>>>>>> instance, may be as much = relevant to cfika1 as cfika3 may be -- a
> >>>>>>>>>>> work
> >>>>>>>>>>> of fiction cu srana both = its plot and its author (and possibly many
> >>>>>>>>>>> other things). Consider:<= br> >
> >>>>>>>>>>> la .alis. cfika sera'= a lo nixli
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> This doesn't necessar= ily say that the plot revolves around a girl
> >>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>> it could as well be sayin= g the work is dedicated to a girl.
>
> >>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry, I don't se= e how anything based on {srana} could possibly
> >>>>>>>>>> mean "dedicated to"= . You'll have to explain.
>
> >>>>>>>>> Well, may be it's not that so= mething is wrong with {sera'a/pe/srana}
> >>>>>>>>> but rather wrong usage and/or glo= ssing.
>
> >>>>>>>>> *srana x1 pertains to/is germane/= relevant to/concerns/is
> >>>>>>>>> related/associated with/is about = x2.*
> >>>>>>>>> *ckini =A0x1 is related to/associ= ated with/akin to x2 by relationship
> >>>>>>>>> x3.*
>
> >>>>>>>>> If we arbitrarily chose parts of = those definitions we'd get
> >>>>>>>>> * =A0srana x1 is relevant to x2 > >>>>>>>>> =A0 ckini =A0x1 is relevant to x2=
> >>>>>>>>> *
> >>>>>>>>> which is nonsense.
>
> >>>>>>>> ckini wouldn't be that. For one t= hing, you left out the x3, and for
> >>>>>>>> another, it isn't "relevant&= quot;, it's "related". The Cold War isn't relevant
> >>>>>>>> to WWII, but it is related (by being = a direct result of it).
>
> >>>>>>> Sorry, it should be
> >>>>>>> * =A0srana x1 is releted to x2*
> >>>>>>> * =A0ckini =A0x1 is related to x2 by rela= tionship x3*
>
> >>>>>> Well, by that definition, srana is {ckini fi = zi'o}, which makes them
> >>>>>> synonyms in the same way that litru is to kla= ma (litru =3D {klama zi'o zi'o}).
>
> >>>>> Haven't you read my previous post? I mean tha= t choosing words from full
> >>>>> definitions ARBITRARILY can lead to this result w= hich is nonsense.
> >>>>> ju'o it's all bad glossing.
> >>>>> I suggest that srana refers to topic and ckini me= ans "to be associated
> >>>>> with".
> >>>>> to dedicate is {finfriti}, {tecu'u} etc.
>
> >>>> No, ko'a srana ko'e means that ko'a is re= levant to ko'e, i.e. ko'a has
> >>>> something to do with ko'e.
>
> >>>> While it is true that the topic of something is perti= nent, something
> >>>> which is pertinent is not necessarily the topic.
>
> >>> Then what is your opinion about my first post? Is it true= that "topic"
> >>> brivla has right to exist on it's own?
>
> >> My opinion is that sera'a serves the purpose. As I said, = "that which is
> >> pertinent to A" is a superset of "the topic of A&qu= ot;.
>
> > So what? By analogy: why would we have {mlatu} when it's clea= rly a
> > subset of {danlu}, so danlu serves the purpose of "x1 is a c= at"?
>
> > mu'o mi'e ianek
>
> >>> Roosevelt is pertinent to the Great Depression, but he is= most certainly
> >>>> /not/ the topic of it.
>
> >>>>> =A0(Btw, in my view, zi'o doesn't say tha= t there is no such thing as
> >>>>>> whatever place it's in, but just that it&= #39;s not important. For example,
> >>>>>> {ko'a klama zi'o zi'o ...} doesn&= #39;t mean there /isn't/ an origin or
> >>>>>> destination, it just means that they don'= t matter. Dissenters should use
> >>>>>> zo'e instead.)
>
> >>>>> I think the CLL says almost the same.
>
> >>>>>>>>> If {srana} really gives us themat= ic role then all the other "is
> >>>>>>>>> relevant to" meanings can be= assigned to {ckini/seki'i}.
>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> >>>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .= i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> >>>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father= . :D )
>
> >>>>>> =A0--
> >>>>> You received this message because you are subscri= bed to the Google
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> >>>>> msg/lojban-beginners/-/**UZopTp21hiIJ<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/UZopTp21hiIJ= >
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>
> >>>> --
> >>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> >>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.lu= k. mi patfu do zo'o
> >>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >
> >>>> =A0--
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> >> --
> >> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi pa= tfu do zo'o
> >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
> > --
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>
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